[MSS] Winning on microlimits playing basic charts

    • conradmafer
      conradmafer
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.09.2010 Posts: 161
      On which stakes can we play basic charts with at least 2bb/100 winrate? I mean without any "advanced" moves, without statistics etc. Just charts, do what they say. And I am talking about pokerrooms like FullTilt and Pokerstars not those small with fishes :f_grin:

      What are your results after 50k+ hands on microlimits? How did you play? Did you play 100% charts or were you thinking and playing with statisticks? What is the most important thing I should pay attention to? I mean I know it's not an easy question but... what is the key to good winrate while multitabling 16+ tables? Is it enough to play charts and eventually bluff 3bet players with high foldto3bet, steal blinds from players with high foldtosteal? I will do anything :f_biggrin: it is my dream to grind 24 tables on NL10-25 and make money of it.

      I have played "thinking poker" with MSS and lost 200$ on NL25 Rush, :s_frown: now I have bankroll for NL2 and I am playing 16 tables with basic charts and no statistics on (just to not screw anything with my ideas), because I think normal games are easier than Rush. My winrate for now is 0.24bb/100 after 3k hands but I hope I was just unlucky.

      I just need to know if it is worth playing MSS, I played 80k hands on Rush this month and didn't make any money...

      Please share your story if you succeed on microlimits with MSS. Any details will be very helpful (if you rebuy to MSS always or continue playing SSS, if you play wider or what you shove with).

      I know it's not your interest to share tips that work for you but it's always worth try to ask :s_biggrin:
  • 5 replies
    • vuckom1
      vuckom1
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2011 Posts: 114
      I started at NL2 with 20$ 1 month ago and now I have 160$ playing nl10 for 1 week at partypoker, about 1k-1,5k hands/day. I decided to play strictly to the charts at the beginning but as you post hands here at evaluation forum you learn if there is better way to play in some spots than said in the charts. I use stats at Nl10 but didn't otherwise. There are so many donks that it is impossible not to make money at these limits :D . Unfortunately they have no bronze/silve content yet.
    • peddy53
      peddy53
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.11.2009 Posts: 103
      it is worth and profitable playing mss. you earn quite a bit but if you tried to play nl25 rush with no stats thats a killer. in my view nl25 rush or even higher there will be a lot of 3bets and and you need some good info.
      i think you can play profitable poker with no hud in nl2 and nl5 but even if you buy the small stakes holdem manager (with poker money =) )or even use the elephant it pays for itself
    • BadeaCelRau
      BadeaCelRau
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 2,122
      I think it's totally worth it to buy a HUD, use Poker Elephant or find a freeware. Even if you pay for it, it buys itself after a few sessions.
      Where I play (Party) there are 3 types of players : tight asses, loose-passives and maniacs and stats help you to know which is which because you can burn yourself fast when using the charts, especially if you're multitabling or playing RUSH. I never played mss without stats and I don't think it works, but that's my personal opinion :D . For example the charts say to bet/fold TPTK but if you face a fish, TPTK is good enough for an allin; the charts say to reraise AK and call allin when someone raises from MP but if your villain has a 5-7% pfr I don't think it's profitable anymore.

      As a whole, this is the only strategy which worked for me. I think nowadays players know how to handle shortstackers and the full buyin tables are full of adequate players but they don't know how to handle midstackers. They do the same moves that fish do and are profitable for us, like calling pairs for set mining even though it's totally unprofitable.
    • conradmafer
      conradmafer
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.09.2010 Posts: 161
      I have HUD and I used it for NL25 rush but it didn't go well so I thought maybe I use them wrong, that's why I turned them off :f_biggrin: and started playing lowest stakes only with chart.

      I used to 3bet bluff players who had more than 70% fold to 3bet almost always when they open raised, did I get the bluff articles right? :f_cool: I had 8% 3bet, but very tight shove range - I guess that's a leak?

      Originally posted by peddy53 in my view nl25 rush or even higher there will be a lot of 3bets and and you need some good info.
      So I will need to change my 4bet range against oponent to lets say 5% if he has 6% 3bet, right?


      And do you recommend basic starting chart for microstakes or the one from gold articles (it's wider)?
    • peddy53
      peddy53
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.11.2009 Posts: 103
      Originally posted by conradmafer
      I have HUD and I used it for NL25 rush but it didn't go well so I thought maybe I use them wrong, that's why I turned them off :f_biggrin: and started playing lowest stakes only with chart.

      I used to 3bet bluff players who had more than 70% fold to 3bet almost always when they open raised, did I get the bluff articles right? :f_cool: I had 8% 3bet, but very tight shove range - I guess that's a leak?

      Originally posted by peddy53 in my view nl25 rush or even higher there will be a lot of 3bets and and you need some good info.
      So I will need to change my 4bet range against oponent to lets say 5% if he has 6% 3bet, right?


      And do you recommend basic starting chart for microstakes or the one from gold articles (it's wider)?
      you need to see as well where are they 3betting from because of the ranges. 4bet is not needed at 25nl (unless you have enough hands against a reg), 4 bets should be only for value 90% of the time. if they 3bet you, most of the times they have it you will lose more money by 4bet/fold with marginal hands than just fold to the 3bet. sometimes even on the button ill fold AJ because most of the times we are going to be dominated against better hands when going all in. id recomend the basic starting chart to start off and once you start getting the hang of it pre and post flop, start deviating from it. I think the gold one you need to have a bit of post flop game and pot control. i think but i dont know :f_confused: