Am I wasting my time playing NL 0.01/0.02?

    • whytheluckystrike
      whytheluckystrike
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.03.2010 Posts: 46
      I'm playing SSS at FTP and I've been grinding for around 20k hands and have seen 0% growth in my BR. SSS seems to be one step forward and then one step back.

      I think I've followed the strategy really well, I've table selected a lot, avoided other SSS players and I've not been on tilt once.

      Maybe 20k is too low a sample size but is there a reason why I'm wasting my time at the lowest level? Still finding it hard to calculate the rakeback I'm getting (if any at all).

      I have the BR to move up a level but with the amount of fish at these stakes (someone went all in K3o Pre, the other day) how can I move up if I cant make it here?

      I also read that some people say these stakes are "unbeatable", I don't know why not.

      The saying "Pissing in the wind" seems to come to mind at the moment.

      Any info would be great,

      Tom
  • 7 replies
    • iPerform
      iPerform
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.04.2011 Posts: 33
      Hey there, I'd say NL2 is not a good place to play because of the 75%> of players going in on flop just because the limits are so low. So maybe you hold pocket aces but some donk with 85os hits 2 pair and now you've lost a buy in. Plus SSS is very outdated, try BSS as I find its much more profitable. . I'd move up to NL5 and start there. Usually its no more than 30% of players go into the flop!

      But these are only my opinions which help me win $$$ you got to find what works best for you.
    • whytheluckystrike
      whytheluckystrike
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.03.2010 Posts: 46
      Surely I want players to go all in pre with hands like that? I think I need to read up on BSS, would help to know both + the difference.

      Thanks
    • mallikarim
      mallikarim
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2010 Posts: 104
      No you're not waisting your time.Cause if you cant beat the fish, how can you beat the ones that actually know sth?I moved to NL5 when my BR got up to 110$, and I can say that althoug ther are still loads of fishes, you can basically expect people to play just a tad better

      To beat NL2 just play BSS( min 100bb) and just play solid no fancy play.If u ever do a fancy play it should be agaisnt someone you have a read on and have observed his tendencies.But normaly if you hit a set or sth and someone has a pair or anything you will get their stack.

      At the beginning you could try like 8 tabbling full-ring and just play TAG, then go 6-max and loosen up a bit.

      And btw , never play shortstacked, there is no point in getting AA and getting a buy-in that small with it when you could get a whole lot more.
      For NL2 you could try and take advantage of fishes and play on the deep tables, where when someone has TPTK they go all in for 4 dollars and you just stack them with a better pair or trips.

      PS : People that say that these limits are unbeatable are usually losing players that want a quick buck and think that fishes who just want to gamble should respect their raises.Wait for the right opportunity and make money off of them.

      gl at the tables
    • Salivanth
      Salivanth
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2011 Posts: 587
      Originally posted by whytheluckystrike
      Surely I want players to go all in pre with hands like that?
      Congratulations. This is something that many, MANY poker players fail to grasp: You do want people to be going all-in with hands like that. If people aren't sucking out on you, ever, that means they're never going all-in with worse hands. And that's not something we want!

      While you aren't wasting your time entirely playing NL2 (The proper term, it's NL<buyin in dollars> not NL<small blind><big blind>) you have the bankroll to play NL5, and players aren't so much better there that you are unable to make a profit with short-stack strategy.

      As for the 20k hands without a profit issue, you may very well have some leaks that need addressing. I'm not sure what they could be, but my suggestion is to start posting hands you aren't sure about in the hand evaluation forum. If you're completely following the charts, than I'm baffled. Download the free trial of Hold'Em Manager, import your hands and find out what your EV-adjusted winnings are. You could be running badly, even over a decent sample size such as this.

      People seem to prefer MSS these days. Read up on it, and see if it's your thing. However, if you want to play BSS, here's a bit of advice:

      The biggest difference between SSS and BSS is the amount of post-flop play. There are so many situations post-flop in BSS that you can't use a chart. If you wish to try it, read up on the strategy, and try it! I donked away half my starting capital trying to find a game I could beat, so don't worry about losing some money while you're getting the hang of it. My two pieces of advice are:

      Continuation bet often. When you are the preflop aggressor, make a 2/3 pot bet on the flop if it hasn't been bet into yet.

      Bet for value with top pair, top kicker and up. If you have an Ace with a good kicker, like a Queen or a Jack, you can bet those too, because people love to play aces, especially if they hit a pair with it. Be willing to stack off with a good overpair or better.

      Lastly, if you're willing to put in some of your own money, put in 20 bucks or so. That'll give you rakeback on Full Tilt, which is very good. 27% rakeback makes quite a noticable difference in your ROI, and you can always cash 20 bucks out later if you want.

      Good luck! You have a great attitude to Poker. You recognise the need to beat low limits, you waited for a good sample size to ask for help, and you definitely seem to understand the material. You may have had a rocky start, but I'm confident you'll find a way to make a profit pretty soon.
    • TiciBoy
      TiciBoy
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.01.2010 Posts: 1,235
      Originally posted by whytheluckystrike
      I'm playing SSS at FTP and I've been grinding for around 20k hands and have seen 0% growth in my BR. SSS seems to be one step forward and then one step back.

      I think I've followed the strategy really well, I've table selected a lot, avoided other SSS players and I've not been on tilt once.

      Maybe 20k is too low a sample size but is there a reason why I'm wasting my time at the lowest level? Still finding it hard to calculate the rakeback I'm getting (if any at all).

      I have the BR to move up a level but with the amount of fish at these stakes (someone went all in K3o Pre, the other day) how can I move up if I cant make it here?

      I also read that some people say these stakes are "unbeatable", I don't know why not.

      The saying "Pissing in the wind" seems to come to mind at the moment.

      Any info would be great,

      Tom
      Played some SSS on stars for bonus clearing purposes (24 tables, but that was some time ago..), so I can pitch in a little. :)
      Firstly, I'd suggest you move to MSS (mid-stack strategy), because you can only play SSS on shallow tables on FTP (and I assume, there is not as much traffic as normal tables). And MSS is not so different, just adds little postflop play. ;)
      But if you want to continue SSS, be prepared for some swings and don't expect a big winrate. Most SSS players (there is not much left, since the table buyin changes) are mass multitablers and rely heavily on rakeback (if I offended anyone from SSS club I'm sorry and please correct me if I'm wrong ;) ). You sey you have BR for higher limit...go for it, there is not such big of a difference in skill. Or play BSS on NL2. Play ABC poker, no fancy plays and you'll beat micros. ;)
      And trust me, these stakes are beatable, you just have to be patient, sometimes may seem it will take forever. ;)
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      If you are trying to learn to make correct decisions, yo are on the right track. It's easy to get confused about what you are tryingto achieve when your strategy doesn't seem to be bringing you the profit you expected or hoped for.
      The idea at these levels is to learn to make good decisions WITHOUT the result being of any concern. When you can do that you will be on the way to being a much better player.


      In a nutshell, the mantra is (repeat as required); 'Decision correct, result irrelevant!' Think about that. Gl, you'll get there.
    • whytheluckystrike
      whytheluckystrike
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.03.2010 Posts: 46
      Thanks for the awesome thoughtful advice, looks like I have lots of reading to get on with!

      I think I'm going to take a break from the tables and get into some heavy research.

      Thanks again!

      Tom