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X3 vs x4 Preflop raise in MSS

    • BadeaCelRau
      BadeaCelRau
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 2,122
      The charts advise a standard 3bb openraise in MSS, some coaches advise 4bb for the micros, so which is better?

      First I used 3x but lately I'm playing more tables and unfortunately there aren't enough 25%+ avg players/flop so I have to join tight tables also. The problem is that I'm getting set mined a lot, big blind is like almost committed to complete 2 big blinds every time I raise.

      I switched to 4x and it's great, my raises are only called by fishes, the players I want to play against, no more regular set mining. The problem is that I have no idea how to seize my bets so I can stack off someone easily.

      In the standard situation of a 3bb openraise with 1 caller the action goes like this :
      Hero raises 3bb, Villain calls 3bb; Pot 7.5bb (37 blinds left)
      Hero bets 5bb, Villain calls 5bb; Pot 17.5bb (32 blinds left)
      Hero bets 11bb, Villain calls 11bb; Pot 39.5bb (21 blinds left)
      Hero bets 21bb (allin) into a 39.5bb pot

      This works smooth and probably that's why charts advise a standard 3x open.


      But when openraising for 4bb :
      Hero raises 4bb, Villain calls 4bb; Pot 9.5bb (36 blinds left)
      Route #1 :
      Hero bets 9bb, Villain calls 9bb; Pot 27.5bb (27 blinds left)
      Hero bets 27bb (allin) into a 27.5 blinds pot

      This route is like playing with the hammer flop & turn, potsized bets and it's hardly working, unless villain has nuts hands.

      Route #2 :
      Hero bets 6bb, Villain calls 6bb; Pot 21.5bb (30 blinds left)
      Hero bets 15bb, Villain calls 15bb; Pot 51.5bb (15 blinds left)
      Hero bets 15bb (allin) into a 51.5bb pot

      The problem is that players tend to fold turn more often and once I get to the river I'm always committed, I can't fold with pot odds 15/81.5 (18.4%).


      By the way, I'm assuming 40bb standard stack. If I had lower it would be even worse. Any ideas on how should I adjust? How you do it, for example? I think 3.5 raise works bets but I'm not using Ninja Table/Party Tools and it's hard to type it each time on each table :(
  • 5 replies
    • zwink
      zwink
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.06.2009 Posts: 12
      I would keep playing 3x. If you know for a fact that he is set-mining then it is super easy to give up when he shows aggression unless you beat a set. 6/7 times he wont hit the set and you will pick up the pot with a cbet. So 6/7 times you pick up 3bb from him instead of just one. Where's the problem?
    • conradmafer
      conradmafer
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.09.2010 Posts: 161
      3,5 is great, I used 3bb raise at the beggining but now I think bigger raises are much better, opponents make more mistakes when the pot size is bigger in relation to our stack.
    • Elroch
      Elroch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.02.2011 Posts: 150
      The official system had a standard opening bet of 4bb until recently, but now it has been quietly changed to 3bb. Not sure exactly when, but must have been very recently.
    • BadeaCelRau
      BadeaCelRau
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 2,122
      It's been 3x since the beginning.

      Yeah, 3.5 is perfect but it's hard to type it everytime, unless you have partytools or tableninja, which I don't :P . I should make a script in autohotkey, maybe.
    • Elroch
      Elroch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.02.2011 Posts: 150
      BadeaCelRau is correct. I was thinking of the article "How to play before the flop" which is for the short stack strategy, not the medium stack strategy.