The Trouble with Micro

    • LucidDementia
      LucidDementia
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.05.2011 Posts: 60
      Just after an opinion or two here. Anyone had a problem of this nature?

      I've played at a more advanced level, for want of a better description, for quite a while. I have a close group of poker friends, most of us avid theorists. We play many home games and have travelled all over to play tournaments and cash games. We tend to play at a heady level; and in this I'm speaking more of skill than limits.

      The trouble I have is this; trying to switch back to simple ABC NL at micros is a total barsteward.....I'm thinking way beyond the donks even though I know I shouldn't be. I'm making bluffs that would get through 75% + of the time at a "clever" table and getting insta-called by obvious hands I'd have to have seriously considered folding in their spot.

      Am I making sense? Can anybody relate to this, or am I just having a bad morning? :s_frown:
  • 13 replies
    • Dragar
      Dragar
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2008 Posts: 2,214
      Your making complete sense.... had the same problem sort of.

      But now I told myself: "I am a fish, I do not know anything... I shall just play"
      but yeah occasionally I still try to pull some bluff and get called :(
    • clawindsouza
      clawindsouza
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.12.2009 Posts: 7,085
      Originally posted by LucidDementia
      Just after an opinion or two here. Anyone had a problem of this nature?

      I've played at a more advanced level, for want of a better description, for quite a while. I have a close group of poker friends, most of us avid theorists. We play many home games and have travelled all over to play tournaments and cash games. We tend to play at a heady level; and in this I'm speaking more of skill than limits.

      The trouble I have is this; trying to switch back to simple ABC NL at micros is a total barsteward.....I'm thinking way beyond the donks even though I know I shouldn't be. I'm making bluffs that would get through 75% + of the time at a "clever" table and getting insta-called by obvious hands I'd have to have seriously considered folding in their spot.

      Am I making sense? Can anybody relate to this, or am I just having a bad morning? :s_frown:
      well the secret here is to be able to adapt....its very important to play just one level ahead of the opponent:)
    • tokyoaces
      tokyoaces
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2009 Posts: 1,883
      I can definitely relate to this.

      However, at every limit of this game there are players that will never reach beyond level 1 thinking. You must be able to adapt to this and there is no shortcut. If you cannot get your fair share of this easy money at all levels then you will eventually reach a plateau where you will just be a break-even rakeback pro.

      There is really no reason to move up until you can crush the nanos.

      Edit: Also I've found that once you do get over the hump of NL2 the next couple of levels can go pretty fast. So don't let an extended stay at NL2 lead you to believe that it will take you at least that long to move up again. The skill level is not that linear.
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      I've never played on "big" levels but I can imagine one thing: at any level, especially live games, there are fish (ahn, "recreational" players). And they are where the poker money come from.

      Thus, on any level one has to know how to extract from fish. And fish at high levels are not sooo much different from the ones in low level (I'm remembering calls w/ 2PMK with an A high board during the high stakes poker show, ring a bell?).

      The difference is, of course, at NL2 you can sit in a 6max table with 4 fish and one very very weak "regular". So if you would play different vs. one fish, you just have to play different vs. those 5.

      It's boring, yes it is. I think the "solution" is just to open various tables. You can't even think of marvelous fancy plays when the beep is sounding for a move in 3 other tables.
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      clawindsouza said it, you need to be able to adapt. Adaptation is why I find the term ABC misleading.

      As has been pointed out, you only need to be one level ahead. GL. :)
    • furculision
      furculision
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2011 Posts: 474
      If you can beat clever players,as you call them,you can beat weak NL2 players also.
      Plus,if you played cash and tournaments,both live,wouldn't you have a better bankroll to start off with,thus owning limits that have "clever players",which you can exploit?

      Another thing.No good player will be bluffed +75% of the time out of a hand or whatever,no matter what.
    • LucidDementia
      LucidDementia
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.05.2011 Posts: 60
      I don't recall saying I was losing to "weak NL2 players", nor did I claim to exploit "clever players", I simply commented on the difficulty in "switching off" the higher level thinking mindset. :f_confused:

      I also never said a player would be bluffed out of a hand 75% of the time, I mentioned spots where the bluff would get through 75% of the time. :f_confused:

      Considering you have neither read my greeting post on the board, nor have any knowledge whatsoever of me, my playing style, ability or financial situation I find your post rude, condescending and pretty damn ignorant. :f_mad:

      Thanks for the welcome.
    • furculision
      furculision
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2011 Posts: 474
      Originally posted by LucidDementia
      Thanks for the welcome and whilst I'm at it, well done on being Silver after 2 months. It took me 5 days. :f_p:
      being a wee bit hypocritical.the same applies for me aswell.you don't know anything.besides if it says you are registered since X date that doesn't mean it took you that long to reach that respective status,i reached silver fast,probably in a few days and everyone newly registered also,because of the x10 points promotion.And i would've reached it fast either way,promotion or no promotion.

      and i haven't played on my tracked account for a long time,except a MTT now and then.

      I guess i sporadically read your post,my apologies.Staying on topic,if you have the possibility,don't play nl2,just go with nl10,ain't that big of a difference,should save you some time.Just PINCH yourself when you consider a fancy play against nl2.
      Hope you don't hold a grudge on an ignorant like myself.
    • LucidDementia
      LucidDementia
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.05.2011 Posts: 60
      That was said in anger, hence was edited back out....before your post. I apologise for that, and no, I don't hold a grudge.

      You did upset me though, I won't pretend you didn't.

      Playing at NL10 would be bad BR management, so I'll suffer down here a while, won't do me any harm. ;)

      Friends?
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      Originally posted by LucidDementia
      That was said in anger, hence was edited back out....before your post. I apologise for that, and no, I don't hold a grudge.

      You did upset me though, I won't pretend you didn't.

      Playing at NL10 would be bad BR management, so I'll suffer down here a while, won't do me any harm. ;)

      Friends?

      I have to say. It was rather enjoyable to read for myself.


      I have the same problem though and perhaps even bigger since i'm play husng's. I have to be able to adapt very well to make a good profit. And unfortunately not all fish take the same lines for bluffs/valuebets. I've leveled myself more times then i can count.

      I'll think like why would he bet this big with that hand? I make some herocall and see he has the nuts and then other times i'll see it was indeed a bluff. Or why would he check flop and turn if he had this hand. Just to see it's some retard that checked two streets with his top pair. It can really get very frustrating at times. On one hand i wish i played higher so i can actually think on a high level while playing. on the other it's still nice playing such weak players all the time. It probably does hurt my progress skill wise since i have to play such basic poker to beat them.


      [edit: gold for first time! awesome :D was waiting for it to update for a few days]
    • StusMagic
      StusMagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.01.2009 Posts: 187
      move up where they respect your raises
    • dochazard
      dochazard
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.10.2008 Posts: 61
      I can relate, sort of, coming from my experience as a teacher/beginning coach in academia. I'm mostly working with postgraduates so when I have to teach the the undergrads, the expectations really have to be lowered.

      One method I use is to throw something at the situation and see if it reacts the way I predict it should. If it doesn't, and knowing that the situation most likely calls for "dumbing down," I just ratchet down the level till what I'm doing consistently works. I also like having a physical reminder nearby... like a post-it on the screen with "K.I.S.S." printed on it.

      Likely, you will lose this groove when you keep winning and you might get stacked on just that one fancy play you try, but that is the nature of the micros. Hopefully, it doesn't happen too often.

      GL sir.
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by dochazard
      [...]

      Likely, you will lose this groove when you keep winning and you might get stacked on just that one fancy play you try, but that is the nature of the micros. [...]

      So very true (been there, done that) :f_biggrin: