cbets on the turn

    • belayd
      belayd
      Global
      Joined: 17.03.2011 Posts: 1,021
      Basic strategy says you should sometimes cbet on the flop even if you've got air, but if you get called and then still have air on the turn, you should just check.

      At the microlimits I play ($2.25 STTs) I find that a further cbet on the turn, in position, nearly always makes a checked opponent fold--about six out of seven times (and the seventh time he's just checkraising or waiting for the river to make his move).

      So I'm wondering whether the more experienced players find that it's +EV in the long term to keep making cbets on the turn even with nothing, the way I have found so far.

      (I'm sure this question has been asked before, but I thought I'd refresh it instead of digging up an old thread.)

      Thanks for all responses, especially from coaches. :)
  • 5 replies
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      In MTT's is quite different I would rarely even cbet bluff. given the structure at micros you need your chips so much. keep them for value!!!
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      It's actually very +EV to turn barrel vs a lot of player. Way lighter then most people think or do.


      I did the math for husng's. and for example a 150 into 240 turn barrel. which is 62,5% potsize your opponent needs to fold 38,4% of hands to make it 0 EV. This might look way better then it actualy is however. Since if your opponent is calling about 30% of cbets. He will always has something when he calls them. So he needs to fold 38,4% of that 30% to make turn barreling (ATC) profitable.


      Something worth considering is that obviously you won't have air always. So you will also be valuebetting a decent amount of the time. And then it starts looking a lot better again ;) Probably best too be careful with it though. Can cost you a lot of chips when you do it vs the wrong players or in bad spots. And it's likely people are going to tighten their cbet call range when you keep double barreling them which could quickly end up with it being very -EV to do it with air frequently.
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      Double post. Should add though that the math becomes very different when your in the hand with more then one player. And depending on the blind structure there might be very little reason to double barrel bluff often. I do find that people in general rarely will call turn barrels with bad hands and will float cbets a ton.
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Against a lot of players at the micros, if they call flop they probably have a pair, and if they have a pair they probably not going to fold. So betting twice @ the micros from a game theory POV doesn't make a whole load of sense imo
    • belayd
      belayd
      Global
      Joined: 17.03.2011 Posts: 1,021
      All good points, even if people are coming to different conclusions. :)

      Pleno, the way it seems to be at the cheapo STTs, a 1/2 pot bet on the flop looks cheap enough to call with second pair or on a draw, but on the turn a 1/2 pot bet is so much larger that speculators often get scared off. Yes, it has crippled my stack the odd time, but as I said, 6 times out of 7 it gets me a WWOSD. Would it be an -EV move at midstakes?

      EDIT: Of course I mean in position, if villain has already checked to me on both the flop and the turn.