## Project regarding poker! Help appreciated ##

    • Melkienn
      Melkienn
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.09.2010 Posts: 22
      Hey guys, I'm currently developing a paper for one of my university classes, and we've decided to analyse poker communities, learning, playing, etc. I would REALLY! appreciate if you can answer any of these questions, maybe pick one of each section and answer. It doesn't have to be a long answer, a very short one if you have no time! But the more answers the better. Please help a poker buddy out :D , it would mean a lot to me, and I only expect a short answer. Plus, I know it can be annoying but I really need it for this subject. Even though some questions might seem of obvious answer, I need to know your opinions about it. By the way, sorry if any of them are badly written, I'm not from an english speaking country (Argentina), and it's 3 am here :P .

      THANK YOU!!


      QUESTIONS



      Communities of practice

      Do you feel part of a team when you participate in an online forum regarding poker, when there are people willing to learn?

      Do you feel passionate about poker?

      Do you feel that you and your poker teammates (meaning other members of your community) share a specific goal they want to achieve, besides winning money? (such as learning, proving themselves what they are capable of, etc? If so, please share your view with us.

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      Learning

      How could you describe the importance of learning and studying in poker? Did they improve your game and the way you perceive things?

      Do you perceive better results after learning, studying and acquiring knowledge?

      Some authors argue that well educated and successful people don’t like failing and admitting they don’t know certain things just because they are used to success. How important do you think admitting that you may be failing and need improvement and training is in poker?

      Senge is an author that mentions that growth can be limited by a compensating cycle or limiting factor. Many people in the world of poker agree in that being willing to study, learn, train and review previous hands is crucial to eliminate this limiting factor. Do you agree, or do you think there is something more to it?

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      Mental processes

      Has studying and learning poker changed your mental processes in relation to poker, allowing you to play better, or do you think training by playing has done a better job at it?

      Maintaining the status quo is easy in the sense that it looking to change could make us suffer from psychological risk. However, being biased and not altering our mental processes could never allow us to learn. How important do you think altering the status quo is to become a good poker player? (changing the way we play, read our opponents, etc).

      How important do you think our mind and its mechanisms are for a game involving limited information as is poker? If possible, explain why.

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      Communication

      Communicating is an essential part of the learning process. How important do you think knowing the poker lingo is for adapting to the activity and improving at it?

      Paul Watzlawick mentions that ‘not communicating’ is impossible, meaning that not expressing something, even without words, cannot be achieved. Instead, he mentions that there is an analogical aspect apart from a digital one that refers to our body language, tone, and actions. How do you see this reflected at the poker table?

      Since we communicate according to the way we play and the style of play we apply, our opponents must make a decision according to this limited information. However, bluffing is always a choice. Thus, how important do you think being able to manipulate what we want to transmit is?



      THANKS AGAIN!
  • 11 replies
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Originally posted by Melkienn


      THANK YOU!!


      QUESTIONS



      Communities of practice

      Do you feel part of a team when you participate in an online forum regarding poker, when there are people willing to learn?

      Yes, my friends watch me, I watch them and we celerbrate when we win. I am just as happy for a friend when he wins as I am when I win

      Do you feel passionate about poker?
      OFC! It is in my top 3 passions in life, which some may say is sad, but it challenges me so me so much. I want to be the best that I can be and as the game is ever developing I can never afford to stand still. I watch 5+ videos a week read 20+ articles a week. Post hands all the time etc etc etc. If I lose I am upset and look back at my session and ask why did I lose? What did I do wrong? If I win I'm in such a happy mood and really happy.

      Do you feel that you and your poker teammates (meaning other members of your community) share a specific goal they want to achieve, besides winning money? (such as learning, proving themselves what they are capable of, etc? If so, please share your view with us.

      As I mentioned above I just want to be the best I can be. I don't want to win X$ I don't even care about the money I love the pychological "game" against my opponent. Owning/crushing somebody that is trrying really hard to beat me intellectually is a huge drive/challenge for me and an overeall goal would be that I was playign at a level where I could play anybody in the world and be +ev

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      Learning

      How could you describe the importance of learning and studying in poker? Did they improve your game and the way you perceive things?

      Without a doubt, I think that having poker buddies is a huge thing. Talking about hands, watching eachother play, positively criticising eachothers plays, growing up together playing poker is better than watching videos/reading articles and posting on forums. I went from being a guy who looked at his own cards and the board, into a guy that looks at every finer detail that there is in poker and its all down to the effort I put in studying.

      Do you perceive better results after learning, studying and acquiring knowledge?

      Yes, break even player into big winning player and then being able to transform this into being a successful coach. Every player I have ever coached for over 6 weeks has improved dramatically and its very very pleasing.

      Some authors argue that well educated and successful people don’t like failing and admitting they don’t know certain things just because they are used to success. How important do you think admitting that you may be failing and need improvement and training is in poker?

      Massively. I was at a point where I played 50k hands and I was breaking even, I was too egotistical to let people tell me what I was doing wrong and I was playing far too aggresively. I finally got a coach and he helped me dramatically. Getting my head out of my ass and realising that there is improvement to be made is such a huge thing for me.

      Senge is an author that mentions that growth can be limited by a compensating cycle or limiting factor. Many people in the world of poker agree in that being willing to study, learn, train and review previous hands is crucial to eliminate this limiting factor. Do you agree, or do you think there is something more to it?

      As mentioned above, yes :)

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      Mental processes

      Has studying and learning poker changed your mental processes in relation to poker, allowing you to play better, or do you think training by playing has done a better job at it?

      I think learning and studying poker is so important, but without playing its almost pointless. Theres so many theories/concepts that you can learn but theres usually one leak that most people have that just stop them from being a winning player. So many people think they are a winning player just because they've read alot, but you really need to put things into practice to ensure the learning pays off.


      How important do you think our mind and its mechanisms are for a game involving limited information as is poker? If possible, explain why.

      Hugely, one thing I suffer with like alot of others is tilt. If I tilt then it impacts my hourly $. If there was no emption in poker it wouldnt be the game that it is though.

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      Communication

      Communicating is an essential part of the learning process. How important do you think knowing the poker lingo is for adapting to the activity and improving at it?

      I know plenty of players who are really not upto date with poker lingo but still crush heavily. Some people can learn by theirselves. For people wanting to be active on a forum and post hands for evaluation itsa imperative that they display their hands in the correct format i.e hand converter, detailed notes etc otherwise they will not get the comments/feedback that they expect/think they deserve.





      THANKS AGAIN!
    • MarcPS
      MarcPS
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 09.11.2010 Posts: 1,077
      this looks like an amazing project. I'll post some thoughts after this meeting! :)
    • MarcPS
      MarcPS
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 09.11.2010 Posts: 1,077
      Originally posted by Melkienn

      Communities of practice

      Do you feel part of a team when you participate in an online forum regarding poker, when there are people willing to learn?

      Absolutely, we learn, improve and win together.

      Do you feel passionate about poker?

      Absolutely. I'm lucky enough to work at a company where my passion is their main business. From that perspective, I'm surrounded by like-minded people and there are so many 'poker nerds' here that it's impossible not to be passionate about it. I use that term as a badge of honour, not in a perjorative fasion. The same goes for the forum here in the EN community -- there are so many people that have a real passion for learning, developing and improving that you really have that drive and support that hallmarks the best communities. When you consider how many times people have posted 'oh, I'm running so bad, I don't enjoy poker anymore' and been greeted with a wall of warmth, help and advise; it's easy to see why being passionate about the people and the community leads to people being passionate about poker. After all, it's a game of people which happens to be played with cards, and this applies off the table, too.

      Do you feel that you and your poker teammates (meaning other members of your community) share a specific goal they want to achieve, besides winning money? (such as learning, proving themselves what they are capable of, etc? If so, please share your view with us.

      I think for sure that the central goal of most people here is to learn to beat the games and develop their skill. A by product of that is, as you do so, you'll earn longterm cash ;)
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      Learning

      How could you describe the importance of learning and studying in poker? Did they improve your game and the way you perceive things?

      If you're not prepared to learn the game and work hard on it everyday then you will be a long term loser and probably won't have that much fun, either. You can be sure taht the others playing your limits will be learning and studying so you must do the same or have the sickest upswing of all time in order to progress.

      Do you perceive better results after learning, studying and acquiring knowledge?

      Yes, absolutely.

      Some authors argue that well educated and successful people don’t like failing and admitting they don’t know certain things just because they are used to success. How important do you think admitting that you may be failing and need improvement and training is in poker?

      I think this is a problem for many people, and not just in poker. I don't know that it's because they are used to success (most successful people have learned from both their fails and their wins) but it can certainly happen.

      Senge is an author that mentions that growth can be limited by a compensating cycle or limiting factor. Many people in the world of poker agree in that being willing to study, learn, train and review previous hands is crucial to eliminate this limiting factor. Do you agree, or do you think there is something more to it?

      I guess this is the Peter Principle...eventually, everyone will reach their 'max'. I think you can strech the boundaries of where that max might be by learning and reviewing. Not everyone will be a nosebleeds pro (you need a fair share of luck to move up from $5kNL imo, upswing at right time, etc). You shouldn't, imo, strive to play the nosebleeds with the geniuses, but rather strive to be the best poker player you can be. Learning and reviewing will either get you there quicker, or move the boundary of what that 'best self' might be.

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      Mental processes

      Has studying and learning poker changed your mental processes in relation to poker, allowing you to play better, or do you think training by playing has done a better job at it?

      I think it's both. You learn more effectively when you know how to apply it in real hands, I think.

      Maintaining the status quo is easy in the sense that it looking to change could make us suffer from psychological risk. However, being biased and not altering our mental processes could never allow us to learn. How important do you think altering the status quo is to become a good poker player? (changing the way we play, read our opponents, etc).

      I think you constantly have to be adapating and changing. If you're not doing that, you're losing long term imo.

      How important do you think our mind and its mechanisms are for a game involving limited information as is poker? If possible, explain why.
      I think they are just super important, it's a mental game of people. There's no 'skill' in being dealt AA or 72o but it's how we react to that which will get us further, how we exploiut/out think/level our opponants, how we extract max value. Everything is in the mind. And that's not even going anywhere near the larger subject of tilt which is of course, entirely mental. The fixes for tilt also are, ofc.
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      Communication

      Communicating is an essential part of the learning process. How important do you think knowing the poker lingo is for adapting to the activity and improving at it?

      Anything and everything is about learning and developing. If you know the lingo, you'll do that quicker as you'll intrinsically know what your peers are talking about. If you're able to explain a concept without the lingo, then you're a true master and have probably really internallised the concept so that you know exactly what it means.

      Paul Watzlawick mentions that ‘not communicating’ is impossible, meaning that not expressing something, even without words, cannot be achieved. Instead, he mentions that there is an analogical aspect apart from a digital one that refers to our body language, tone, and actions. How do you see this reflected at the poker table?

      I guess you see this in tells, body language (chat box: online), and yopu can generally get an idea of who is steaming/tilting, who's in the zone, etc.

      Since we communicate according to the way we play and the style of play we apply, our opponents must make a decision according to this limited information. However, bluffing is always a choice. Thus, how important do you think being able to manipulate what we want to transmit is?

      Anything that gives you an advantage is important, of course, but it depends on your opponant's perception of you. You must constantly adapt and change and become a 100% balanced poker player, not just a poker player with balanced ranges ;)
      I really hope that helped. I had a lot of fun considering the answers! :D

      glglgl with the university course and do keep us up to date on how it's going!
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      Originally posted by Melkienn
      Hey guys, I'm currently developing a paper for one of my university classes, and we've decided to analyse poker communities, learning, playing, etc. I would REALLY! appreciate if you can answer any of these questions, maybe pick one of each section and answer. It doesn't have to be a long answer, a very short one if you have no time! But the more answers the better. Please help a poker buddy out :D , it would mean a lot to me, and I only expect a short answer. Plus, I know it can be annoying but I really need it for this subject. Even though some questions might seem of obvious answer, I need to know your opinions about it. By the way, sorry if any of them are badly written, I'm not from an english speaking country (Argentina), and it's 3 am here :P .

      Great project man, best of luck with it.

      THANK YOU!!


      QUESTIONS



      Communities of practice

      Do you feel part of a team when you participate in an online forum regarding poker, when there are people willing to learn?

      Definitely. Aactually part of many teams. I feel part of PokerStrategy and some other smaller teams of people I have met through this forum and with who I work and share the fun / excitement and sometimes of course frustrations


      Do you feel passionate about poker?

      Yes hmmm but there is a thin line between passion and obsession


      Do you feel that you and your poker teammates (meaning other members of your community) share a specific goal they want to achieve, besides winning money? (such as learning, proving themselves what they are capable of, etc? If so, please share your view with us.

      In the smaller teams that I have joined most certainly. I try to associate myself with people that have similar goals and play similar games /limits so we can progress together


      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Learning

      How could you describe the importance of learning and studying in poker? Did they improve your game and the way you perceive things?

      Learning I think is the only way to longterm success in poker. It definitely improved my game and myself all together



      Do you perceive better results after learning, studying and acquiring knowledge?

      Generally yes. But it happens that there are downswings after learning as well. So I try not to focus on short term and hope to see nice giraffes at the end of the month

      Some authors argue that well educated and successful people don’t like failing and admitting they don’t know certain things just because they are used to success. How important do you think admitting that you may be failing and need improvement and training is in poker?

      Well admitting to oneself things one doesnt know is finding ones leaks so it is essential however admitting to others is completely different. I think a true pro needs to constantly improve his game if he/she wants to stay on top of the game

      Senge is an author that mentions that growth can be limited by a compensating cycle or limiting factor. Many people in the world of poker agree in that being willing to study, learn, train and review previous hands is crucial to eliminate this limiting factor. Do you agree, or do you think there is something more to it?

      I think one will always have the possibility to better his own game

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Mental processes

      Has studying and learning poker changed your mental processes in relation to poker, allowing you to play better, or do you think training by playing has done a better job at it?

      Both are entwine. If I really had to pick one I'd say that playing is more important but it is close

      Maintaining the status quo is easy in the sense that it looking to change could make us suffer from psychological risk. However, being biased and not altering our mental processes could never allow us to learn. How important do you think altering the status quo is to become a good poker player? (changing the way we play, read our opponents, etc).

      I think it is essential to evolve/ change our play as we grow as poker players, as we go up limits as we face stronger/ different opponent.



      How important do you think our mind and its mechanisms are for a game involving limited information as is poker? If possible, explain why.

      It is essential. I found poker extremely demanding in so many aspect of thinking. I do a lot of equity /pot odd calculation. I work on my state of mind constantly at and away from the poker tables. I analyse deeply the meaning of an opponent's reaction (bet, call, raise), sometimes too deeply :P . But yes I believe that poker is extremely demanding on the mind

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      Communication

      Communicating is an essential part of the learning process. How important do you think knowing the poker lingo is for adapting to the activity and improving at it?

      it is somewhat important but like everything you can always ask if you dont know what a words means and you can always express it another way yourself when you don't know. so it is definitely not that important

      Paul Watzlawick mentions that ‘not communicating’ is impossible, meaning that not expressing something, even without words, cannot be achieved. Instead, he mentions that there is an analogical aspect apart from a digital one that refers to our body language, tone, and actions. How do you see this reflected at the poker table?

      I don't have much experience live

      Since we communicate according to the way we play and the style of play we apply, our opponents must make a decision according to this limited information. However, bluffing is always a choice. Thus, how important do you think being able to manipulate what we want to transmit is?

      Very important to be able to communicate what we want through the bluff but even more important to choose when and against who to pull a bluff

      THANKS AGAIN!
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      In regards to the "Peter Principle" I disagree and think that there are no boundries in how far you can go.
    • MarcPS
      MarcPS
      Moderator
      Moderator
      Joined: 09.11.2010 Posts: 1,077
      Originally posted by pleno1
      In regards to the "Peter Principle" I disagree and think that there are no boundries in how far you can go.
      I think at any given point, there is a limit.

      but we can move this limit with hard work, dedication and learning.
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      I think almost any single person who puts effort in/trys can beat 200nl. Once you get past there maybe there is a limit, but even so you would have learned so much in the process getting there.
    • Melkienn
      Melkienn
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.09.2010 Posts: 22
      Thanks for all of the answers, guys! It is REALLY appreciated :D
    • lynius
      lynius
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2011 Posts: 382
      Even for the guy not doing a project, good read - thank you all :)
    • utenosmelynas
      utenosmelynas
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2009 Posts: 286
      Originally posted by Melkienn


      QUESTIONS



      Communities of practice

      Do you feel part of a team when you participate in an online forum regarding poker, when there are people willing to learn?

      Yes, learning connects people.

      Do you feel passionate about poker?

      Of course, without passion no one nowhere can succeed in long term.

      Do you feel that you and your poker teammates (meaning other members of your community) share a specific goal they want to achieve, besides winning money? (such as learning, proving themselves what they are capable of, etc? If so, please share your view with us.

      I think so, there are other goals than win money like self-improvement, growth, etc., as well as beating the games(no matter its nl2 or nl2k) is a goal that everyone has inside.
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      Learning

      How could you describe the importance of learning and studying in poker? Did they improve your game and the way you perceive things?

      Learning and studying poker is the only way to go if someone wants to "MAKE IT BIG" in the poker road. It is a part of success. You can't succeed without learning by only playing, and you can't succeed without playing by only learning. And some things that you can learn by learning and understanding poker can really help out in real life. eg. understanding that focusing on decisions not the results is crucial; all mindset stuff that you can apply in real life; long-term thinking/seeing in real life; and so on...

      Do you perceive better results after learning, studying and acquiring knowledge?

      Of course.

      Some authors argue that well educated and successful people don’t like failing and admitting they don’t know certain things just because they are used to success. How important do you think admitting that you may be failing and need improvement and training is in poker?

      Ohhh, admitting that you are not good enough as you see yourself after "sick 5k hands heater" or good 20k hands run is crucial in long-term. Self-evaluation plays a big role here, growth is impossible without it. "well educated and successful people don’t like failing and admitting they don’t know certain things just because they are used to success" Ego can't admit or can't face/imagine their failure. This is very destructive mindset which can lead to many psychological sufferings. Really wise and successful people know that they still have something to learn and they won't fear a(short-term) failure.

      Senge is an author that mentions that growth can be limited by a compensating cycle or limiting factor. Many people in the world of poker agree in that being willing to study, learn, train and review previous hands is crucial to eliminate this limiting factor. Do you agree, or do you think there is something more to it?

      I believe and actually pretty sure that there is no such a thing as "limit". Truly when you think deeply about it you start to realize it. Show me the limit? Where is that "zone" where i will be unable to learn something new or do something differently than i do now. Sometimes it can look like an "end of the unlimited zone" but it is an illusion of your mind or short-term result which you can overcome. The fact is that all the limits are set in our sub-conscious mind. And when you do know that there are no limits involved - there are no limits involved. And when you do know that there are limits - there are.

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      Mental processes

      Has studying and learning poker changed your mental processes in relation to poker, allowing you to play better, or do you think training by playing has done a better job at it?

      Absolutely learning new concepts change the way you think/react at the table and of course it allows to play better, view things in other ways than you did. As I mentioned before in my opinion there can't be any emphasis on only training by playing or only learning away from table. Both things do their job and are crucial in poker.

      Maintaining the status quo is easy in the sense that it looking to change could make us suffer from psychological risk. However, being biased and not altering our mental processes could never allow us to learn. How important do you think altering the status quo is to become a good poker player? (changing the way we play, read our opponents, etc).

      I think this question is about adaptation. "Maintaining the status quo" i understand as being in comfort zone(?). So, wisely altering and adapting our mental processes is of course very important thing to become a good poker player. There are different players so we must react in different ways against them.

      How important do you think our mind and its mechanisms are for a game involving limited information as is poker? If possible, explain why.

      Poker is a game of mind and information. The fact that information is limited for everyone leaves us with the fact that poker is a game of mind. It's everyone will to correctly interpret and use the information they have. How we use the information and how it helps us depends on a skill we have. So mind no doubts in general is the most important thing in poker, not luck, not bad weather and etc., :D (i hope i understand this question correctly)
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      Communication

      Communicating is an essential part of the learning process. How important do you think knowing the poker lingo is for adapting to the activity and improving at it?

      Knowing the poker lingo is helpful but not essential. If we would talk about live games and poker lingo would mean "body tells" then it becomes more important to being able to read our opponents.

      Paul Watzlawick mentions that ‘not communicating’ is impossible, meaning that not expressing something, even without words, cannot be achieved. Instead, he mentions that there is an analogical aspect apart from a digital one that refers to our body language, tone, and actions. How do you see this reflected at the poker table?

      I think this question refers to live games? body language, tone, actions... So yes playing live at the poker table you can not to not communicate. Your body, decisions tell something every time anyway. It is possible that some people may have the very good intuition and just feel you sometimes. And vice versa.

      Since we communicate according to the way we play and the style of play we apply, our opponents must make a decision according to this limited information. However, bluffing is always a choice. Thus, how important do you think being able to manipulate what we want to transmit is?

      At live games i think it's important to be the master of your whole body/being. If you can manipulate then it's definitely +++ and makes you better live player.


      If it helps then happy to help. :)
    • utenosmelynas
      utenosmelynas
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2009 Posts: 286
      .