[NL2-NL10] NL10SH - Flopped nut str8, board pairs on river

    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Hi, Veriz.

      This is a continuation of our discussion in the other hand. For plays like this that I avoid the bet/fold and prefer the check/call for pot control on river:

      PartyGaming - $0.10 NL - Holdem - 9 players

      LP: $2.29
      CO: $10.34
      BTN: $2.92
      SB: $10.00
      BB: $3.60
      UTG: $10.19
      Hero (UTG+1): $13.23
      MP: $20.93
      MP+1: $5.47

      SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has 7:heart: 6:heart:

      fold, Hero raises to $0.40, fold, fold, LP calls $0.40, CO calls $0.40, fold, fold, fold

      Flop: ($1.35, 3 players) 5:diamond: 8:club: 9:spade:
      Hero bets $0.90, fold, CO calls $0.90

      Turn: ($3.15, 2 players) 4:club:
      Hero bets $2.30, CO calls $2.30

      River: ($7.75, 2 players) 9:diamond:
      Hero bets $3.70, CO raises to $6.74 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.04

      So I swear I went for bet/fold. But then I realized it was $3 to call for a pot of $20. Sorry, no way I'm folding the nut straight with almost 6 to 1.


      Hero shows 7:heart: 6:heart: (Straight, Nine High) (PreFlop 34%, Flop 93%, Turn 100%)
      CO mucks 9:heart: T:heart: (Three of a Kind, Nines) (PreFlop 66%, Flop 7%, Turn 0%)
      Hero wins $20.23


      In fact, I do see people making that "shove" with overpairs on that spot a lot, they have no idea what turning a made hand into a bluff means anyway. And of course he could do that with a 9, even though not many on his pre-flop calling range (89 has me crushed).

      In the end, I could be completely beat but the price was just too good to be true. Lucky in this one.

      What do you think, Veriz? And the play on previous streets?

      Thanks a lot!
  • 10 replies
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      One thing: I do realize I could have bet bigger OTF, especially vs. 2 villains. But the board is a bit dry, I don't mind them coming along (for a price), and I was almost inducing a raise from a set to get it in (even though, thinking now, a set didn't have reason to raise flop precisely because it was dry :D )
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello luizsilveira,

      Nah, there is no way I am going to fold it either. If he really had some kind of set then I guess he would have tried to raise it early game. And he may easily ship the river with the 9x and not only the FH. And of course we are just getting too good odds.

      Best regards.
    • Edukator99
      Edukator99
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.07.2010 Posts: 240
      Can't see how you'd fold here? The only thing I can see beating you is a full house. I figure he hit trips.
    • patszerdonk
      patszerdonk
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2011 Posts: 834
      Its interesting to see this hand from Villain (CO) point of view. OK, he made a mistake preflop (he should 3bet it, right?). How should he did flop, turn, river?

      Sorry, I hijack your post :f_cool:
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by patszerdonk
      Its interesting to see this hand from Villain (CO) point of view. OK, he made a mistake preflop (he should 3bet it, right?). How should he did flop, turn, river?

      Sorry, I hijack your post :f_cool:
      I don't think he made a mistake pre-flop. 3betting could have been an option, but from my position I could easily have a very strong range and he still have more players to act behind. I don't think overcalling with suited connectors to probably play in position is that bad.

      His mistake is post flop IMO. And it's something I see a lot with people playing suited connectors: they fall in love with pairs (top pair, in this case). If you play SC, that's for straight, flushes or at least a strong draw to *steal* the pot. He had nothing, and did the worse play in poker: called. I mean, calling flop is fine to float if board doesn't change, but after my second barrel I could easily have TT+ and all he would have would be a gutshot and one card to come. I think it would be fine to fire if checked to, but for calling? Awful.

      And if I indeed had TT+ he would just have gotten lucky on the river (as often happens, you know)...


      Board: 5:diamond: 9:spade: 8:club:  4:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    89.39%  89.39%   0.00% { TT+ }
      MP3    10.61%  10.61%   0.00% { Th9h }


      That's my 2c, but let's wait for Veriz of course :)
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      He should just fold it on turn. :) There ain't many hands what he beats anyways.

      Oh and one thing. 76s from UTG is way too early to play. :D Unless you really have very good postflop skills.
    • Vice1
      Vice1
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.12.2009 Posts: 1,923
      I was wondering why you were betting the river half pot instead of shipping? Every 9x or overpair will pay you off. I think sets/two pairs mostly raised on previous streets.

      Or a c/r would be more on the spot here because of missed draws?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by RicoW
      I was wondering why you were betting the river half pot instead of shipping? Every 9x or overpair will pay you off. I think sets/two pairs mostly raised on previous streets.

      Or a c/r would be more on the spot here because of missed draws?
      Actually good point-out. You could easily just ship it there as well. :) Which is even better.
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by veriz
      He should just fold it on turn. :) There ain't many hands what he beats anyways.

      Oh and one thing. 76s from UTG is way too early to play. :D Unless you really have very good postflop skills.
      It was not UTG! It was UTG+1! :D

      Nah, at this point you're familiar with my not-so-good post-flop skills. Or lack of them.

      What happens is sometimes those FR tables at Party are soooo nitty one has to take advantage. If there were too many callers at the table I wouldn't do it, but if everyone is uber tight I'll do it *every one in a while* just for fun. Usually they'll call behind with a poket pair and let go to a cbet, and very rarely they 3bet.

      Two things to add: I don't do it often, not even close to every time I have SC on EP; and after playing some time on SH, postflop on FR is sooo much easier (even though I'm not good, I think I'm fine enough not to spew).

      And of course, it's always more fun on top when a reg gets fed up with my 25/25 stats, 3bets light from late and I have the goods. Then they are spewy enough not to let go their marginal.

      Oh, micro limits... I know I'd be massacrated on higher ones though.
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by RicoW
      I was wondering why you were betting the river half pot instead of shipping? Every 9x or overpair will pay you off. I think sets/two pairs mostly raised on previous streets.

      Or a c/r would be more on the spot here because of missed draws?
      Actually good point-out. You could easily just ship it there as well. :) Which is even better.
      You think?

      hmm. Well, I bet smaller because at the paired river I only thought about bet/folding. Don't you think shipping could make hands like TT or JJ to fold?

      What I do regret is not betting stronger OTT. Flop I think is fine, I don't want to make my regular cbet much bigger, the board is perfect and I'll not have many (if any) scare cards on turn. Plus I do want both players to come along.

      But OTT, since he decided to stick along, I could have fired a bit bigger. Sometimes people even interpret that as "trying to make them fold" and call, and I won't fire 2nd barrels OOP too often anyway to mind about betsizing tells. He wouldn't fold sets or overpairs anyway, and his trash he would fold to my 2/3 bet anyway. So yeah, at least some 2.5 or 2.7 OTT would be much better, I think now.