little SSS question

    • pollypoker
      pollypoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.11.2005 Posts: 5
      When making a pre-flop raise, I bet 4x the BB + 1 BB per limper. How do I treat the mandatory BBs that have been posted by people joining the game and have yet to act? Do I adjust my bet to the dead money?


      oops, i just realized that i posted this thread in the wrong section. sorry about that.
  • 10 replies
    • abundance211
      abundance211
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2007 Posts: 151
      Yes, you count each one of them as a limper and adjust your raise amount accordingly.

      But sometimes, depending the pocket cards I am raising with and especially if there are 3-4 limpers or more, including those to act behind me, then I go all in directly to eliminate the number of players at the pot. Most of the mandatory BBs that have been posted by players joining the game would fold their hands.
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      abundance is right, you treat them as limpers.
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Moved it. :)
    • Watto77
      Watto77
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2007 Posts: 206
      So in that case in NL 25 with no limpers before you, you should actually raise to $1.50 or 6BB?
    • Watto77
      Watto77
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2007 Posts: 206
      I don't know whether or not I agree with this. If it is the case then surely you are much more committed to an all-in situation post flop. This is fine for your premium hands but what about the hands you can play in later position where you may need help from the board. If you raise more preflop and hit a trash hand you are much more likely to be committed and have to push with rubbish!

      Once again if this is in fact a more profitable way to play why isn't it stated in the articles of basic or bronze?
    • abundance211
      abundance211
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2007 Posts: 151
      Originally posted by Watto77
      So in that case in NL 25 with no limpers before you, you should actually raise to $1.50 or 6BB?
      I am not sure I understood your question.

      If you mean that there are 4 players behind you that posted the BB, then the answer is yes: you raise 6BB.

      Originally posted by Watto77
      I don't know whether or not I agree with this. If it is the case then surely you are much more committed to an all-in situation post flop. This is fine for your premium hands but what about the hands you can play in later position where you may need help from the board. If you raise more preflop and hit a trash hand you are much more likely to be committed and have to push with rubbish!
      But in a 10 handed game, with no limpers before you and 4 players who posted the BB to act behind you (I will call then "posters" from now on), your position is either EP or MP1 and according to the strategy you would raise from EP only with premium hands (AA - JJ, AK) and from MP1 also with TT - 99 and AQ.

      It is not possible that you are in late position when there are no limpers before you and yet there are 4 posters to act. So, in conclusion you are either with premium hands (and thus except in very extraordinary situations you will be delighted to go all in post flop) or with TT - 99 and AQ. And with these hands you can decide upon flop if you would like to continue or not (depending the flop's texture, the size of the pot and the number of opponents in pot).

      I hope that I was able to clarify your confusion.
    • Watto77
      Watto77
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2007 Posts: 206
      I understand what you are saying but in terms of whether or not you want to continue postflop when raising extra for the blinds,if in late position you are more often than not dictated to push because of the strategy ie. pot is 2x your stack or preflop bet or cbet deemed you committed rather than what the flop is.

      What I am thinking is that the extra BB's you bet preflop can make you more committed and less likely to be able fold some hands because it effects your stack size to raise size ratio a lot more.?
    • abundance211
      abundance211
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2007 Posts: 151
      Originally posted by Watto77
      I understand what you are saying but in terms of whether or not you want to continue postflop when raising extra for the blinds,if in late position you are more often than not dictated to push because of the strategy ie. pot is 2x your stack or preflop bet or cbet deemed you committed rather than what the flop is.

      What I am thinking is that the extra BB's you bet preflop can make you more committed and less likely to be able fold some hands because it effects your stack size to raise size ratio a lot more.?
      Hi Watto,

      I am afraid that there is still some confusion.

      If you go back to the top of this thread you will see that the original question (posted by pollypoker) was about the raise size when there are players who joined the game and thus posted the mandatory BB (apart from the BB itself). And the answer was: When you have the proper pocket cards according to the SCH of SSS, and you decide to raise, you raise 4xBB +1BB per every limper (whether they are before you or behind you).

      When you are in EP or MP1 and these players (the "posters" who joined the game) are still to act behind you, as I said before you are in the game mostly with premium hands.

      If you are in late position, and all these "posters" just checked to you, you simply act according to the SCH of SSS.

      If one or more player had raised before you, you also act according to the chart and fold any hand which is not qualified for reraise (i.e:any hand which is not an AA - JJ and AK). Up to this point nothing is different from the SSS.

      And yes: post flop you are dictated to push post flop when the pot is 2x your stack.

      Regarding your remark (and I quote you here): "or preflop bet or cbet deemed you committed", I want to remind you that when pre flop you need 2/3 of your stack for reraise, you go directly all in and there are no more decisions to take post flop.

      I think that what you are thinking about is those situations when you are in late position with 77 or 88 and there are 3-4+ limpers in front of you. Would you make then the "regular" raise size? And then face tough decisions post flop? Well, a much better and experienced player than me has answered these questions. I suggest you have another look at NL SSS sample hands week #2 (NL SSS sample hands week #2).

      Good luck!
    • Watto77
      Watto77
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.12.2007 Posts: 206
      Yep you are right abundance.

      I was thinking that the people already in the blinds (SB/BB) you treat as limpers whether they actually do or not.

      Thats solves everything

      Cheers
    • pollypoker
      pollypoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.11.2005 Posts: 5
      Thanks for answering my question, guys!