[NL2-NL10] Interesting hands and questions from 01/30 SSS Adv. Coaching

    • xarry2
      xarry2
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2007 Posts: 834
      Following situation:
      hero raises with Ax, villain calls. hero doesn´t hit the flop, Donkbet from villain
      When should we call?
      Odds and Outs?
      High card strength?


      As a bigstack you can sometimes make a floatcall or a reraise against a donkbet with overcards (AK, AQ ...) you get much more respect with a big stack behind and thus you get FE for a reraise or FE for a bet on the turn.
      Not to mention the higher implieds when you hit one of your outs.
      As a shortstack I don't think it is good to call or reraise donkbets very often since we only have a small stack left. meaning: no implieds and not much FE.
      However, we can call or reraise donkbets if we have good reads about the opponent or if he is betting small. For example if we have AK on a T62r board and a weak opponent donks into us very small. then we can sometimes call on odds an outs or make a raise. This depends much on the reads we have. If we have FE (i.e. low WTS and reads) we can make a raise. In most cases donkbets are weak hands aiming to take the pot away cheaply. So on the mentionend board something like a pocket pair or mid/bottom pair. But again, we must have good reads in order to stay in the hand. Best would be a read prooving our estimation for villains holdings after a donkbet and that he's able to fold a pair against our small stack.
      I recommend to stay tight/weak in these situations and not to overplay our hands unless we are sure what we're doing.


      Can we make something like a slowplay when we hit nearly the unbeatable nuts like on table 1 ( I had AQ (OOP in the BB) on AQ7r board against an UTG l/c) to induce a bet from him? or dont you like it because its to readable then?

      In this case I don't like it since its a nice spot to balance the frequent direct pushes on the flop OOP I will have to make with a small stack compared to the pot. If I push here my opponents will have to fear the ace for example when they hold a queen (and I they fold to my 99 e.g.) . and i don't think that an UTG l/c will often bet if I check to him on this flop since he will often have low pps or SCs where he's scared of the overcards.
      In the sample hands I will post a hand where slowplay makes much sense.
      Slowplay on a A hi board HU or 3 handed seems strange. But on a J62 board 4 Handed a check from me symbolizes "I have nothing" and it will be big fun to check/raise my opponents with JJ :)


      how do you play unraised multiwaypots (4-6 handed) oop if you have an oesd or flushdraw?
      in which situation do you push/call?


      In multiway pots I don't like to bet/call. first, I have not much FE against 3 or 4 other players. I'm also OOP so I don't have any information what happens after me. If I get a call I have a hard decision on the turn, too.
      If I choose to c/r all-in I can beat all this problems:
      - I will see turn and river
      - I create most FE
      - and I can adjust my play according to the action

      Here's an example:

      Hand 1: Draws in multiway pots OOP

      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      MP3:
      $581.82
      Hero:
      $101
      CO:
      $300
      MP1:
      $199.62

      3/6 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with J:spade: , 9:diamond: . CO posts a blind of $6.00.
      UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $6.00, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $6.00, CO checks, 2 folds, Hero checks.

      Flop: ($27.00) 10:heart: , 8:diamond: , 3:club: (4 players)
      Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, CO bets $18.00,
      Hero raises to $95 (All-In)

      Bettin OOP here makes not much sense. Even though nobody showed strength preflop I haven't got FE here. All opponents seem to be quite loose. But even with tighter opponents I will often get a call or even a reraise. and thus be in serious problems.
      So I check. lets see what happens. in this case CO makes a position bet. everybody checked to him and he's in position. That's why he will have a very wide range here. from weak draws to middle/bottom pairs or pure bluffs and some good made hands.
      A perfect spot for a check/raise. (but even against MP3 or MP1 bets I could start this move)

      a short calculation:

      EV = FE*27$ + (1-FE)[(27$+95$)*Equity - 95$*(1-Equity)]

      I assume arround 35% equity when beeing called. (even a bit pessimistic)

      So, how much FE we need then?

      0 = 27*FE + (1-FE)*(-19.05)
      0 = 27FE - 19.05 + 19.05FE

      FE = 41%

      If we assume that we will only be called by sets/2pairs and TPTK holdings we have enough FE considering the wide range of CO.

      Other important aspects:

      - a stack around 15BB creates enough FE but provides a good risk/return ratio

      - aggressive opponent(s) -> he will have a wide range then
      (against a very passive player(s) this move is not profitable)

      - 8 outs (normal OESD) is close. here we had 9-9.5 through the J which is still good against AT/KT ect. with 9 outs we can make this move in good spots (like above). but with 10 outs or more i think its profitable very often.

      - try to balance this line with strong hands like sets. but take care of the board. it should be dry and best is an aggressive opponent IP so we will often get the chance to c/r.


      Hand 2: Slowplay with the "nuts" in raised pots



      Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)       
      Position:
      Stack
      MP3:
      $95.80
      CO:
      $177.46
      Hero:
      $43.10

      1/2 No-Limit Hold'em (10 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q:heart: , Q:diamond:
      Hero raises to $8.00, 4 folds, MP3 calls $8.00, CO calls $8.00, 3 folds.

      Flop: ($27.00) 2:diamond: , 2:heart: , 2:spade: (3 players)
      Hero checks, MP3 bets $8, CO folds, Hero raises to $35.10 (All-In), MP3 calls $27.10.

      Turn: ($97.20) 9:heart:
      River: ($97.20) 6:club:


      Final Pot: $97.20

      A very good spot to slowplay/trap. If we make a bet here against 2 we represent somthing like TT+. against thinking players but as well against semi-good players we won't get calls very often. maybe they will call with 88+ but not with overcards e.g.
      If we check now, we represent AK or AQ. many pocket pairs will now make a bet. maybe we can also induce some bluffs from the opponent IP with overcards. Then we can easily c/r All-In an we'll get much more value from hands that would have folded otherwise.
      But even if we get no action on the flop the freecard is not problematic. We only have to fear A or K. With JJ or TT however, I would prefer the direct bet since we have more problematic overcards to come.
      As you see, your trap works well if you really represent a weak hand. That's most important when trying to trap. And you don't get a balancing problem here. Maybe, If you have AK next time your opponents will take the check behind more often since they can't be sure what you're holding.
      And then where happy about the A on the Turn :D
  • 6 replies
    • Publius
      Publius
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.02.2006 Posts: 1,339
      n1! Thanks!
    • mmuff
      mmuff
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.08.2007 Posts: 142
      Referring to Hand 1: Draws in multiway pots OOP :

      What do you do if nobody bets on the flop and

      a)you hit the turn

      b) you miss the turn ?

      regards mmuff
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      I also prefer to play check/raise in those spots. This is how I handle failed attempts:

      a) I bet for value here. I don`t think you can miss the bet here with a made s8. Besides, c/r turn shows too obvious strenght.

      b) Normally, I give up the hand. Our equity will likely decrease, while FE is still uncertain.

      would like to know other options)

      btw,

      - try to balance this line with strong hands like sets. but take care of the board. it should be dry and best is an aggressive opponent IP so we will often get the chance to c/r.


      great tip, thanks)
    • xarry2
      xarry2
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2007 Posts: 834
      @ mmuff:

      I totally agree with xylere's answer. It makes no sense to slowplay with a hit. As I said, slowplay only works good if your opponents play for you. In this case we must be sure or at least quite sure that an opponent will make a bet and we can c/r then. But xylere also said that the c/r looks much stronger and therefore I think we will get more folds. So the direct bet definitely brings more value.

      When we don't hit I still play passively. so c/c or c/f. but since we have less implieds (on the flop we have 2 streets and on the turn only one street left)
      I really need decent odds in order to call. you just can't calculate more than a half potsize implieds on the river in average.

      @ xylere:

      ty. Its important to balance this line. otherwise our opponents will call us very often If we move with a draw on the flop. so less FE.
      So its prefect to play the c/r on the mentionend board with pocket 33 :)
      if we get a call, our opponents will remember.
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      I have another question:

      FE = 41%

      If we assume that we will only be called by sets/2pairs and TPTK holdings we have enough FE considering the wide range of CO.


      any formulas for this one?)
    • xarry2
      xarry2
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2007 Posts: 834
      nope. rather an estimation.

      he could bet:

      Jx
      Tx
      78, 89, 97, pps or even worse hands. thus he has to fold very often facing our c/r.