[NL20-NL50] NL 20 SH QQ turn ?

    • MrBrilliant
      MrBrilliant
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.02.2009 Posts: 406
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.20(BB) Replayer
      SB ($58.55)
      Hero ($24.69)
      UTG ($36.16)
      UTG+1 ($20.41)
      CO ($3.97)
      BTN ($19.50)

      Dealt to Hero Q:club: Q:heart:

      fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.70, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $2.40, UTG+1 calls $1.70

      FLOP ($4.90) 4:heart: J:club: 3:spade:

      Hero bets $2.99, UTG+1 calls $2.99

      TURN ($10.88) 4:heart: J:club: 3:spade: 3:diamond:

      Hero bets $7, UTG+1 raises to $15.02 (AI), Hero calls $8.02

      RIVER ($40.92) 4:heart: J:club: 3:spade: 3:diamond: 6:heart:

      stats: 21/17 agfactor 3.0 wts 27
  • 5 replies
    • 3betForFood
      3betForFood
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.03.2010 Posts: 81
      what's your question?
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Well, no draws in his range that's for sure :D

      I'd think he would show on occasion with AJ or similar; he's noticing since he will be all-in by the river anyway and does not want to let go TPTK, better shove now. BUT mostly I think you're beat. I've done my share of cold calling KK pre and taking exactly that like, it's hard for villain to fold turn and you stack many more JJ/QQ than preflop. To sum up, I think you're beat but the price is just too good to let go.

      My question is: why do you bet the turn in the first place? Protection is not at stake. If any, with AK he has 6 outs with 1 card to come. With AQ, only 3. You're beat by AA/KK/JJ anyway.

      So, protection not being an issue, If you think you're ahead and are betting for value it's an easy call. Villain might show TT- or so, you never know. But if you are in doubt, should have checked and let all his Jx, AQ, pockets and trash in or even try to float. Then you have easy ch/c or ch/shove. Ch/c donk any river could be the best +EV, but I think I'd prefer ch/shove turn for image so he doesn't float hero much in the future. For the same reasons you called I think he would call with many things but AQ after his possible bluff, and like said for the non-bluff part of his range you were beat anyway.

      Just my 2c, please feel free to criticize as I suck and am only thinking out loud :P
    • 3betForFood
      3betForFood
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.03.2010 Posts: 81
      As I see it the reasons hero shouldn't be more prone to check then to bet are either that he knows villain floats a lot on dry boards and will stab the turn or villain won't call anther barrel but is capable of calling 2nd barrel otr if hero checks the turn. imo the latter isn't a good reason not to bet. if villain called the flop with sd-value hands he shouldn't fold much of that to anther ott.
      Anther question you should ask yourself - if hero doesn't vbet QQ here what will he be vbetting with?
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by 3betForFood
      [...]. if villain called the flop with sd-value hands he shouldn't fold much of that to anther ott.
      Anther question you should ask yourself - if hero doesn't vbet QQ here what will he be vbetting with?
      Yup, very well put.

      And ofc his turn shove doesn't mean much. I'd think many Jx on his range that are noticing not much stack left in river anyway if he calls, so shoving is better. Not to mention air ofc, using the double 3 as a scare card. One thing is (almost) certain: unless he's pretty bad, he's not shoving JJ or 44. A straight is *really* unlikely. On the "strong" side of his range maybe only Jx with FD. I don't even thing he'd shove some preflop slowplayed AA. So, as I see it and that's what I meant in my previous post, after turn bet (for value) it's an easy call.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello MrBrilliant,

      Preflop: His UTG range is often times very strong. And therefore I might even sometimes prefer just Calling here and not trying to isolate ourselves against better hands.
      Postflop: Not much to add as you went for value preflop.

      Best regards.