PokerEV for FL

    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Anyone used to PokerEV for FL?

      I just looked at all my limits and my downswing level (=5/10$ SH) was very weird.

      Maybe someone can tell me if there were mainly leaks or if it was just a normal DS? I haven't played much last year because my motivation went down rapidly so these are all hands I played since mid of march up to december 2007 (Haven't played at PP this year because of my tests.). I lost quiet a few hands so I'm not sure if the graph covers all hands.

  • 16 replies
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      I always thought that showdown winnings = sklansky bucks, but seeing this makes me think that's not possible.

      This is mine from last 1.5 days, yes I ran good, but I always have Showdown winnings >> Sklansky bucks...

    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      All my other limits look like yours. The only difference is that the "normal" have 1++BB/100 and the 5/10$ SH has -0,9BB/100.

      Now a graph where the winrate is negative but different to mine would be interesing.

      EDIT: I'm pretty sure that there were leaks at least. My SB didn't grow so I guess it means that I played breakeven when I went to showdown. The up at the end is where I started playing again so I hope/guess I fixed theem. :D
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      I'll post another graph tomorrow when I'm home. There I've got 8k (wow samplesize) bit negative. I know that I played awful aswell.
    • macydus2
      macydus2
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2008 Posts: 72
      Is work being done on translating these german articles? I mean even in the standard article they piss all over us with Gold/Platium articles which are probably most important in passing just the "basics". They also have many more tournt articles and have an omaha section!!!!!!!!

      Then the user submitted articles are just crazy, they have so much more material and im guessing they contribute the same % of rake

      I read somewhere about how they were hoping to get a few more great english players as they saw no reason why we couldnt make it as others have but if others have more access to material, busier forums etc. is it possible for the english speaking the players to catch up?
    • frzl
      frzl
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      mh didn´t know that this works for fl also ^^
      in sss your graph would tell me that your all in decissions aren´t always great, that you had horrible luck and that you have won a lot money money without seeing showdowns (good contibets, bluffs etc.)
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      I guess it's a bit guggy for FL.

      My interpretation is that if the blue graph is going down then it due to the fact that the red doesn't moves up steadly which means that I made wrong decision when I went to sd.

      I played at that time up to 6 tables and tilted a lot so I think it was just break even play.

      Can anyone who has a long FL breakeven phase or downswing post his PokerEV graph (frzl maybe? Not that I think that you have leaks. :P )? Would be interesting to see other graphs.
    • DarthBobo
      DarthBobo
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2007 Posts: 1,134
      Here's my breakeven graph cirith. I hope it's long enough for you :)


      Here's all my FL 0.10/0.20 hands:





      And here's all my FL hands: (FL 0.05/0.10 and 0.10/0.20 combined)

    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Thx. I guess this is how it has to look if you are just playing breakeven but when it's not a leak but a simple downswing. :)
    • DarthBobo
      DarthBobo
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2007 Posts: 1,134
      thanks, I really needed to hear that :)


      I did some research myself on this program a few weeks ago. Read almost all threads at 2+2 and the homepage of the program about it. The graphs are a bit difficult to read. And the program is better suited for NL so that makes things even worse.

      But here's something I found in my notes. It's something the author of the program wrote:
      The difference between the green line and blue is the amount you win from non-showdown hands. If green< blue, it's negative. That's not a bad thing, especially for limit, but if the gap is huge you might want to look at increasing aggression. Using it with the filters (made hand, pot size, and so on) is the best way to find exactly where you're losing money at both showdown and non showdown hands.


      So cirith: about your graph:
      You win a lot of money before showdown. But if you go to showdown you lose a lot of money. Perhaps this means that you play very aggressively, and you win money when all villains fold. But if you go to showdown, you are outplayed. So maybe you should be a bit more careful with your hands that you take to showdown.


      Of course my explaination may be completely wrong... I'm still a poker newbie. Just trying to see if there's any truth in what I'm thinking :)
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Thx for the quote. I don't have the time for reading all these threads. (I don't have even time to post here because I'll write a test tomorrow but haven't leart enough yet. ;) ) (But I need breaks. :D )

      The explaination sounds good but there has to be more. I doubt that anyone is able to win 4+BB/100 which I would have if I trust PokerEV. ;) (1 BB is fine for me.)

      So it might be a mix of downswing and being outplayed. This being outplayed could be very well tilt where I call everything down to see the hand because I fear the bluffed again. (I guess everybody knows this kind of tilt. :/)
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      You can have 4BB/100 showdown winnings easily, I even reached like constant 10+. It's just that you lose money by folding preflop or folding somewhere in the hand. This doesn't necessarily mean you're playing bad, it's probably just something that goes along with your style.


      PS: ciRith, do you have MSN/Skype or something? I've got a few questions for you about content weeks :)
    • henne007
      henne007
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.05.2007 Posts: 2,143



      here is my pokerEV graph from all my hands at 0,5/1 SH. doesn't look to good.
    • ciRith
      ciRith
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2005 Posts: 18,556
      Looks exactly like DarthBobo's. :/ He mentioned that this is because you are to passive postflop. (And that you have a downswing of course.)

      Thx for your graph. :)
    • DarthBobo
      DarthBobo
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2007 Posts: 1,134
      Originally posted by ciRith
      He mentioned that this is because you are to passive postflop.
      yes that's true, but I think that is especially for NL. There it is easier to make others fold by showing lots of aggression.

      In FL, and especially the microlimits where I play, it's not much use being more aggressive than I am now (my AF is about 2.4). My experience is that a lot of opponents will call you down to the river anyway. So being more aggressive simply makes you lose even more money if you're behind.

      If you're behind in NL there's always the possibility of making a big raise and bluff. The result is that your preflop winnings go up and that the gap between the blue and the green line becomes smaller.

      In FL, my experience is that it's more difficult. People call anyway.

      So that's why I think the quote from the PokerEV programmer is probably better for NL. In FL things are more complicated.


      So henne007: don't take the advise from the PokerEV programmer for granted. Probably you are already very aggressive and it's just a downswing.
    • henne007
      henne007
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.05.2007 Posts: 2,143
      Originally posted by DarthBobo

      So henne007: don't take the advise from the PokerEV programmer for granted. Probably you are already very aggressive and it's just a downswing.

      i hope its just a downswing. and i'm not planning to just be more aggressive, play the best i can. but thanks for the comment
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      The 8k hands where I broke even on 0.25/0.50... Exactly the same as the other ones :P