MTT >300 players - some hints

    • drachdudek
      drachdudek
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.11.2007 Posts: 656
      Hi

      Recently i have been involved in some freerolls or token MTT tournaments for some big ammounts of money (15.000, 30.000$) with more then 300 players,i would say from 400 - 1000players and i would kindly ask some MTT experts for some opinion how do you play in such situations to get as higher as possible or probably try to come to the final 30 where the money is GOOD :D .

      I am trying to play tight until the blinds reach 100 and then to play more loose...With such strategy playing tight in the beginng i am avoiding myself beeing kicked out fast and win some good hands to get big blinds for continous play, but i am not successful...I played 3 such tournaments and once came to 67 place (i got something:) ) and second and third time i was eliminated arround 100 place.

      I am not kicked out fast, but playing tight and others are getting big stacks and your stack is lowering and after 100 hands played when the good hands start to come and you have less then 13BB you have to go all-in or fold and players will call everything and you are mostly sucked because of low stack and being unlucky...

      Do you have some competent proposal? Probably my strategy is wrong and mybe is better to be more loose and play LAG until 100 and after getting big stack playing more TAG....?

      Do somebody have some good and tested ranges to play from 20 to 1000?

      Thanks for any comments

      I hope i was clear enough otherwise please free to ask for some additional clarification in this thread.
  • 8 replies
    • zamwise
      zamwise
      Silver
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 4,882
      Hi,

      Last week I played my 6th 100+8 buy-in tournament and finished 10th (previous five have produced positions 1, 4, 17 and two times no money). Smaller tournaments many more. I don't think that I'm a real pro in this subject, but I have had some strategy discussions with two friends who are quite professional online tournament players.

      The main guideline for me is like this:

      1) Within the first two levels play tight, very tight. Even AK, at least offsuited, should be thrown away quite easily, especially in multi-way pots. TPTK and even an overpair are trash hands with which you shouldn't risk your whole stack. Except when you have read your opponent right.

      2) Then you can loosen up your game for a while. Players who were lucky in the start tend to play tight, they want to keep their chips. Those who are with smaller stacks have to push pretty soon with any two cards. If you find a relatively strong starting hand and your position is good, you can start to work your stack up. Be aware of fishes who get lucky rivers. Try to avoid a situation where your game falls if the river is an ace which you didn't want it to be.

      3) Then again there usually comes a stage when you should play quite tightly. It's that when the blinds are eating the smallest ones and they really have to push with any two. If you call too many of these you end up loosing your chips more than getting them. Unless of course you win all those coinflips...

      4) And the money line is near... depending on your stack, it's either very tight and try to fold your way to the money, or loosen up and build up your stack and get ready for the final table. This way you'll end up going over the money line with a bigger stack and finish on the better positions... or you'll drop off without any money, but the total profit after many tournaments is better.

      5) After the money bubble bursts you usually see all the shorter ones pushing very soon. At first rounds in the money you can and you should play strong hands very aggressively, but quite easily let go of the not so good ones. You'll get calls and reraises anyway, so good cards get paid and bad ones beaten.

      6) When the final table is getting closer it's a bit like before the money line. Except that most players are a bit moore loose since even if you drop off the tournament at this stage you'll get a prize about 3-30 buy-ins, it's much more than nothing.

      7) Congratulations, you have arrived to the final table! :)

      Go see the strategy articles, there is nowadays available some good material about tournament playing. It has helped me a lot.

      And in the meantime I wrote this I played a 180 person $4,40 sng (top 18 paid) at PokerStars, position 13. when 18 remaining :)

      -- Z --
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      I've only read a little about this, but basically there are two strategies:

      1) Play tight, especially in the beginning. You have a big stack compared to the blinds, so you can afford to wait for premium holdings.

      2) Play relatively loose in the beginning. This doesn't mean you should be a maniac, but be willing to take a coinflip or two. It'll result in high variance, but when you win you normally have a nice stack by the time the bubble is near, which means you can continue building your stack, like stealing with a wide range, without risking a big part of your stack.


      Personally I think #1 is more adapted to deep-stacked, slow structure events, where you can really wait for big hands. It's also a style very close to cashgames, so if you're not a tournament player, it doesn't really change much.

      I'm not very experienced in MTT's, but I think #2 can be quite profitable if played correctly, not only in standard tourneys, but also in deep-stacked tourneys. Variance will be rather huge, but especially in big events (like PP 300k sunday etc), there's a lot of people playing on scared money, or who qualified for 1$, and who'd rather crawl into the cash than risk their tournament life. So if you have a big stack on the bubble, it can be very useful to pick up pots, and build your stack even more for the later stages.
      Concerning the final stages, you'll have to adjust a little, since when it's down to 2 tables you'll go from full tables to shorthanded, and back to full again at the final table. After that, I think there's an article on final table play in the strategy section (at least there used to be one... have a look)
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      imo early in tournaments exactly equal to BSS cash games.

      late play loose ICM.
    • drachdudek
      drachdudek
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.11.2007 Posts: 656
      thanks for your comments...I think all of you are correct, but there is one important issue. Whatever you play in the beginning LAG , TAG or mix the main point is that if you dont "HIT" cards in arround 100 hands then is no use as you will be low stack and when start hitting your cards you will loose more or less always...but anyway i will adopt your comments and i will let you know about the progress:)
    • curnow
      curnow
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2007 Posts: 1,039
      Originally posted by drachdudek
      thanks for your comments...I think all of you are correct, but there is one important issue. Whatever you play in the beginning LAG , TAG or mix the main point is that if you dont "HIT" cards in arround 100 hands then is no use as you will be low stack and when start hitting your cards you will loose more or less always...but anyway i will adopt your comments and i will let you know about the progress:)
      Everyone will go card dead at sometime but you can still steal pots , play position and look for the weak players on the table but I always find if I get one good hand then others will come very soon ,

      I dont like freerolls because they are so fishy in the beginnings and lucky players will be able to build big stacks

      take to advice from zamwise & swissmoumout , both winners in tourneys & sound advice , playing final tables I tend to play them bit like a deepstack sng and always try to make top 3 where the money is
    • drachdudek
      drachdudek
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.11.2007 Posts: 656
      what is your usual "seen flop" in the beginning of play (first three) levels and after that?
    • zamwise
      zamwise
      Silver
      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 4,882
      Originally posted by drachdudek
      ... if you dont "HIT" cards in arround 100 hands then is no use as you will be low stack and when start hitting your cards you will loose more or less always...
      Very important thing is to find out how you can win pots without going to showdown. One help for this is to check occasionally your opponents previous results from rankingpages. Non-profiting people will not usually let go of any hand, so be careful with them. Highly profiting people tend to have very strong hand when they want you to call, so be careful with them too :)
    • sw0ldo
      sw0ldo
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.07.2007 Posts: 397
      Early stages play super tight thrown in with some small-med pairs for set value and the occasional suited connectors when there is a few limpers and you are IP.

      Middle stages loosen up a bit steal a few blinds try a few squeezes, play your good hands fast and get some value.

      Late stages (ie just ITM) I tend to play super aggressive as by this time blinds+antes can be a very big proportion of your stack so it is very important to steal. pressure the medium stacks if you are the biggest stack and try not to destroy your reputation by pushing into people who only have 1/2BB left and basically have to call your raises.

      gl - btw good training grounds are the $4.40 180 man SNG's on stars.