[NL2-NL10] Nl10 - JJ

    • theloniousbones
      theloniousbones
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.01.2008 Posts: 177
      I can't help but feel that I totally misplayed this hand. Any thoughts?



      Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker- FullTilt.php#converter Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

      BB ($7.85)
      UTG ($9.25)
      UTG+1 ($2.10)
      MP1 ($4.40)
      Hero ($1.90)
      CO ($9.75)
      Button ($0.80)
      SB ($1.90)

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J:spade: , J:heart: .
      2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.3, Hero calls $0.30, 4 folds.

      Flop: ($0.75) T:diamond: , A:club: , 2:spade: (2 players)
      MP1 bets $0.5, Hero folds.

      Final Pot: $0.75
  • 12 replies
    • KillaKHAN
      KillaKHAN
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.04.2007 Posts: 660
      raise is 3x his bet - so you should've raised to .90
    • frzl
      frzl
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      push preflop
    • 098799
      098799
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2007 Posts: 1,245
      Do you always push instead of just raise 3x oponent raise preflop, frzl?
    • frzl
      frzl
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      no it depends on my stack ^^
      but with a standard stack the answer is yes

      lets say i have 20bb. i reraise to 9bb then the pot is 18-19,5bb big if 1 guy calls. my rests tack would be about half the pot and i´m commited anyway + i have no difficult postflop decissions if my AK doesn´t hit or my JJ gets 2 or 3 overcards.

      the standard strategy says something else but imo it´s definately the only correct move...

      //edit: there is an "H" missing in my last sentence... it´s supposed to be "imHo" :)
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      In this spot, with any hand from JJ+, AK range I reraise 3x against loose opponents and push against tight ones (if they are not tight enough to fold).

      Pushing is good, because, as was explained by frzl, it solves postflop problems.
    • 098799
      098799
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2007 Posts: 1,245
      I'll remember that - push against tight oponent and raise against loose one. Thank you, xylere.
    • frzl
      frzl
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      i have to admit that i don´t like it... especially because my stack is most of the time 16-18bb big and imho there is no sence in reraising to 9
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      well, with 16BB stack you should push according to the basics. I was talking about the standard 19-20BB stack. My logic tells me that in this way you decrease your FE when you have an equity advantage (against loose range) and increase FE when you don`t have one (against tight range). Half of your stack definitely changes your FE.

      I might be wrong though, please, correct me in this case.
    • frzl
      frzl
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      hm i don´t think there is something like "right" or "wrong" in this case. maybe it´s just about styles of play.
      i tried bove and i am more into the direct push line and i think it can´t be that wrong because peterbee, alaton and karlo play the same. on the other hand you seem to run good with your line so i think it should be ok also :D

      but i would definately recommend the push line to a beginner...
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      think it can´t be that wrong because peterbee, alaton and karlo play the same.


      basic strategy is on my side though :P but seriously, thanks for the info, I`ll keep it in mind and maybe do some deeper research on it.

      There should be a reason fo it, though. Atm I can see couple of possible reasons:

      - My calculations are totally wrong. For now I assume that when we have 65-70% + equity advantage over an estimated range (10%+ pure PFR from the opponent's position) fold equity decreases our EV.
      The problem here (just figured it out) is that you sholud be quite accurate in your estimations (using multiplier to determine real PRF from current position won`t always bring very accurate results). But in the obvious cases (opponent has 15+ PFR) you won`t be able to manipulate your FE with a short stack, so very likely FE can be excluded from EV equation.

      So I should admit, that frzl is totally correct and I also recommend the push line to beginners.

      I still think that you can make more accurate higer EV play here, but I don`t think it is worth it. However, it is always good to think about the game, so if someone has any thoughts to add, please be welcome)
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      its also quite disbalancing if you stealraise with marginal range from late positions. Basically, I was 3x reraisng with my strong hands and pushing weak)) what a shame :D
    • stantos
      stantos
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2007 Posts: 173
      here i would defo push preflop,with such a short stack your commited if you re raise as you did. why give the player a chance to hit his ax for eg..... thats how i play anyway and it works for me i guess