Fish setmining in 3bet pots

    • Saruniks
      Saruniks
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2010 Posts: 1,213
      So, in 250 hands today, I got setmined twice, but what is the problem??? they set mine in 3bet pots. I 3bet, they call, I have overcard and we go broke... Should I expect set in 3bet pot? I mean we are 100 BB deep and he set mine in 3bet pot... that makes no sense...

      How should I react? Will I lose money to those set miners in long term?
  • 9 replies
    • Saruniks
      Saruniks
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2010 Posts: 1,213
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.04(BB) Replayer
      SB ($1.62)
      Hero ($6.16)
      UTG ($3.28)
      CO ($5.06)
      BTN ($4.05)

      Dealt to Hero A:club: A:heart:

      UTG calls $0.04, fold, BTN raises to $0.20, fold, Hero raises to $0.60, fold, BTN calls $0.40

      FLOP ($1.26) 3:heart: Q:diamond: J:spade:

      Hero bets $0.80, BTN calls $0.80

      TURN ($2.86) 3:heart: Q:diamond: J:spade: 6:diamond:

      Hero bets $1.44, BTN raises to $2.65 (AI), Hero calls $1.21

      RIVER ($8.16) 3:heart: Q:diamond: J:spade: 6:diamond: 4:diamond:

      Hero shows A:club: A:heart:
      (Pre 82%, Flop 10.8%, Turn 4.5%)

      BTN shows 3:diamond: 3:club:
      (Pre 18%, Flop 89.2%, Turn 95.5%)

      BTN wins $7.76

      this is it

      maybe I should 3bet more, but then it's allmost the same.
      well, he get less implied odds, but does he get it even now?
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      Hi Saruniks

      it depends a lot of opening bet and the side of your 3 bet. you might be giving them odds to mineset. Also if you only 3bet with monsters villain got huge implied.

      Regards

      Thazar
    • phantommm92
      phantommm92
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.05.2010 Posts: 1,464
      imo its at best a break even play for them and i dont think you can do anything about it
    • roopopper
      roopopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      This has happened to me too today!! :(


      Roo
    • furculision
      furculision
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.03.2011 Posts: 474
      don't look at individual results and draw a conclusion.make a note on that guy,the next time you will have a pretty good idea of his call 3bet range.

      i think he is -EV cuz he doesn't have x20 of the raise in his stack
    • dochazard
      dochazard
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.10.2008 Posts: 61
      Originally posted by furculision
      don't look at individual results and draw a conclusion.make a note on that guy,the next time you will have a pretty good idea of his call 3bet range.

      i think he is -EV cuz he doesn't have x20 of the raise in his stack
      ^^ THIS.

      Although the mathematical implied odds needed for set-mining is 11:1, my coach-friends agree that the needed odds are more like 15:1 to make calling raises for set-mining, or even limping with short stacks, a profitable play.
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      As I said before it depends of your 3 bet range. If I got it right you hit a set on the flop about 1 in 8 times. however you can still get outdrawn to a better set , flush, or straight. so you need a bit more than 8:1 implied.

      If someone has for example 1% 3bet (and believe me there are some) over a large sample. I know that I have massive implied and that I more than likely get his stack if I hit. So I am likely to call even with 12x or so implied.

      The looser you are on your preflop 3bet, the less likely i am to get your stack post flop if I hit the more I need the relative stack size to be deep.

      BTW this is my opinion, and I am in no way a great player :) . So I am open to correction :)



      Best regards

      Thazar
    • phantommm92
      phantommm92
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.05.2010 Posts: 1,464
      you should count in the rake, etc, but against some people 10x implieds+some pot odds are enough.
    • Saruniks
      Saruniks
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2010 Posts: 1,213
      yup, I got your point, he might have got implied odds.

      this is 2nd hand. I folded as I didn't hit so but he still set mined

      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.04(BB) Replayer
      SB ($3.71)
      Hero ($4.16)
      UTG ($4)
      CO ($4)
      BTN ($5.56)

      Dealt to Hero K:diamond: A:spade:

      fold, CO raises to $0.12, BTN calls $0.12, SB calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.56, CO calls $0.44, BTN calls $0.44, fold

      FLOP ($1.80) 5:spade: 9:diamond: 2:spade:

      Hero checks, CO bets $1.28, BTN raises to $5 (AI), Hero folds, CO calls $2.16 (AI)

      TURN ($8.68) 5:spade: 9:diamond: 2:spade: 4:heart:

      RIVER ($8.68) 5:spade: 9:diamond: 2:spade: 4:heart: 3:diamond:

      BTN shows K:heart: T:club:
      (Pre 49%, Flop 1.6%, Turn 0.0%)

      CO shows 5:club: 5:heart:
      (Pre 51%, Flop 98.4%, Turn 100.0%)

      CO wins $8.25