Speculative Hands at Loose Tables

    • thepowerplay
      thepowerplay
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.10.2009 Posts: 81
      Question specifically for Cornholio if he checks in, but I'd also like to hear what anyone else says too. Pretty basic question...

      In Cornholio's basic FL video, he talks about loosening up the starting hand requirements at a loose table and calling with Spec pocket pairs (88-22) pre-flop instead of folding, because there will be more money on the table if you can catch a set. Does the pre-flop call also apply to the other Speculative hands... suited wheelhouse hands... in case you can catch a flush or a straight?

      Thanks in advance! :)
  • 7 replies
    • Dawnfall26
      Dawnfall26
      Black
      Joined: 30.07.2008 Posts: 3,116
      Hi!

      You should note that this strategy applies only when you are EP where openlimping is possible when playing agaist loose(and mostly passive!) players. If you are on a table where someone may isolate raise you this becomes a bad tactic and also its pretty bad to openlimp from any further position since now its way less likely that you will get into a multiway pot.
      And about which hands are candidates...hands which play good postflop in a multway pots(pockets,suited connectors,suited 1gappers,low suited Ax and you can even go looser depending on how bad the table really is)
    • thepowerplay
      thepowerplay
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.10.2009 Posts: 81
      Thanks for the reply. One last question... how many players do I routinely need to see going into the hand pre-flop in order to loosen up? 4, 5, 6, etc? Games I were playing yesterday often had 4 players pre-flop, and I didn't that that was loose/passive enough to open my requrements those hands. Correct/mistake?

      ?(
    • dochazard
      dochazard
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.10.2008 Posts: 61
      More than number of players going to see the flop, more important are stack sizes. Is your stack and any of your opponents' stacks deep enough for you to profitably limp in with your spec hands? Sure it may be just 1BB preflop, but you'll see a lot more spec hands than raising hands, so you still have to be choosy when you want to play these (position and players behind) plus the stack sizes that will potentially pay you off (if the callers are playing MSS or SSS, you won't probably make enough when you do hit your sets and strong draws). 15BB in both your stacks is what you want to see after preflop betting.
    • Boomer2k10
      Boomer2k10
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.09.2010 Posts: 2,551
      My "rule" of thumb is bascially if there are going to be 4 or more players in the pot pretyt much guaranteed I'm not folding a PP or a decent SC-style hand preflop for 1 or 2 bets.

      These multi-way hands are capable of winnin massive pots when they hit well and are generally easy to play post-flop. Also multi-way pots tend to be a lot more "honest" than HU pots so you can et off hands like low PPs easily.

      The idea is just basically "Get in cheap relative to the pot size preflop and then hit something which causes you to win a big pot". It's not exactly a romantic notion of bluffing/point-counter-point but it's bascailly what it all adds up to.
    • thepowerplay
      thepowerplay
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.10.2009 Posts: 81
      Thanks for the replies... that gives me a few things to guide me while playing. 4 players pre-flop helps clarify that... thanks.

      I didn't consider stack size, since I am playing limit hold em. Does stack size still matter with limit? Typically the shortest stack at a table I'm playing would be 10 big bets... but most players are closer to 20 give or take.
    • PeterCross
      PeterCross
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.04.2011 Posts: 19
      Originally posted by thepowerplay
      In Cornholio's basic FL video, he talks about loosening up the starting hand requirements at a loose table and calling with Spec pocket pairs (88-22) pre-flop instead of folding
      I've probably missed the point entirely so I apologize in advance but I am not clear whether you are talking about open limping or calling with limpers before you. In the latter case then I presume you've got the bronze level starting hands guide which says to call in with 22 if there are 3 callers and 55 with 2 callers ("Actions against callers in front of you - calling/raising").

      I also can't see that stack size is important for FL but with my level of ignorance I could easily be wrong!
    • thepowerplay
      thepowerplay
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.10.2009 Posts: 81
      No I haven't even looked at those yet... I've just been running off the basic chart. Thanks for pointing that out... I'll look there next!