[NL2-NL10] NL 4 - bottom set vs reg

    • StaringAtGoats
      StaringAtGoats
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2011 Posts: 57
      Villain is a fairly solid reg (21/19, 3B 11, AF 7.3 over 500 hands). I wasn't hoping to get called by him, but I flopped bottom set.

      As he's 21/19 his calling range is going to be 33 - 99 ( probably 3Betting TT).

      I CBet the flop for value from his overpairs. Then the turn is a blank.
      Now I'm trying to get max value from his overpairs again. I tried to play a little tricky here, as I'm probably not going to get 3 streets of value from weaker hands, by betting.

      Or would it be better to just standard VB 3x here? (And folding to any raise) How about c/r the turn?

      Then as played he overshoves the river (range: 44,55,88 (and possibly 99)). So I guess I should have folded here.


      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.02/$0.04 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

      Known players:
      SB:
      $4.43
      BB:
      $0.93
      MP2 (Hero):
      $7.54
      MP3:
      $3.00
      CO:
      $4.04
      BU:
      $5.26


      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 2, 2.
      Hero raises to $0.14, MP3 folds, CO calls $0.14, 3 folds, 2 folds, BB folds.

      Flop: ($0.34) 2, 4, 5 (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.28, CO calls $0.28.

      Turn: ($0.9) 4 (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $0.68, Hero calls $0.68.

      River: ($2.26) 8 (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $2.94(All-In), Hero calls $2.94.

      Final Pot: $8.14.

      Results follow:

      CO shows a full-house, eights full of fours(8d 8h).
      Hero shows a full-house, twos full of fours(2h 2d).

      CO wins with a full-house, eights full of fours(8d 8h).
  • 5 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello StaringAtGoats,

      Depends really on the opponent but basically when he is capable of going to showdown a lot then I'd just Bet/Bet/Bet vs him.

      The problem with Check/Call is that you might just miss a lot value and only getting value from some bluffs. And then you even did ask either you should Call the river or not, you basically let him bluff and therefore I would as well go broke.

      My own I am not a big fan of such a play and in long run you will miss a lot value but while he is very aggressive then we might even able to see bluffs/weaker hands from his side which plays that aggressively.

      Best regards.
    • StaringAtGoats
      StaringAtGoats
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2011 Posts: 57
      Originally posted by veriz
      Hello StaringAtGoats,

      Depends really on the opponent but basically when he is capable of going to showdown a lot then I'd just Bet/Bet/Bet vs him.

      The problem with Check/Call is that you might just miss a lot value and only getting value from some bluffs. And then you even did ask either you should Call the river or not, you basically let him bluff and therefore I would as well go broke.

      My own I am not a big fan of such a play and in long run you will miss a lot value but while he is very aggressive then we might even able to see bluffs/weaker hands from his side which plays that aggressively.

      Best regards.

      The opponent is a fairly solid TAG. And his range for flat calling PF is 22-99. So He's either got a set or a PP.

      My PF and Flop play is standard, so the two questions are how to continue on the turn and river.

      1) Turn: If I check he's going to bet close to a 100%. So I don't see much of a risk of him checking back the turn. And I don't think he's got any bluffs in his range here, either.

      To target getting value from his PPs I decided to c/c, as I'm ahead of his range and don't have to protect from much. And I think I'm get more value by c/c than by betting here.


      2) River: Any 3,6,7,8,9 may have helped him and any T+ he's not going to bet. But as it's 8 he's going to VB and he's definitely not bluffing.

      If I bet, the only worse hand I may get called by is 99.
      If I c/c, I don't see myself ahead of his range anymore (44, 55, 88, 99).
      So should I c/f as played on the turn?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      So should I c/f as played on the turn?

      Why the heck should you fold your nuts on turn? Only some combos beat you but while you beat a lot more combos (and not only pairs but even bluffs). And how can you be so sure that he only Calls with PPs? Any stats? As far you didn't mention any then I guess you don't know.

      And as far you see his AF is HUGE, which definitely includes even bluffs. And what do you think how does he play TT-JJ? Yes you said maybe he 3bets but you can't be sure. I have seen many of those players who even don't 3bet with those hands. So I wouldn't be even surprised when he holds them there.

      And basically most of the cards which are in deck you are going to fold on river and only putting the opponent on pure nuts?
    • StaringAtGoats
      StaringAtGoats
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.02.2011 Posts: 57
      Originally posted by veriz
      So should I c/f as played on the turn?

      Why the heck should you fold your nuts on turn? Only some combos beat you but while you beat a lot more combos (and not only pairs but even bluffs).
      I meant to ask if I should c/f on the river (as played on the turn).
      I'm definitely not folding the turn, you're right.


      Originally posted by veriz
      And how can you be so sure that he only Calls with PPs? Any stats? As far you didn't mention any then I guess you don't know.
      I don't think he's folding PPs in position to my open raise. So he's either 3B or calling. And as there's a 2% gap between VPIP and PFR it would make sense for those 2% to be mainly low / middl PPs. (That's just my logic and the way I've seen him play, he seems to act the way I would)


      Originally posted by veriz
      And as far you see his AF is HUGE, which definitely includes even bluffs. And what do you think how does he play TT-JJ? Yes you said maybe he 3bets but you can't be sure. I have seen many of those players who even don't 3bet with those hands. So I wouldn't be even surprised when he holds them there.
      He 4B / called AI with JJ.


      Originally posted by veriz
      And basically most of the cards which are in deck you are going to fold on river and only putting the opponent on pure nuts?
      Yeah you're right, that's a bit of a problem with my line. Nearly every possible river card is going to be bad...

      At least with T+ I know it hasn't improved his hand (if I was right about his range) and can can c/c his (possible) bluff.

      Thanks for the detailed advice. And how would you play with the given info?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Guess it's still hard to fold the hand. :( Just for one reason that he is suuuuper aggressive. If he really was like some passive player then I might even find a fold but even then rarely. I wouldn't be surprised if he even turns some smaller PP into bluff there and plays like this.

      Plus wasn't your plan with Check/Call on turn to induce him to bluff?