TAG or LAG?

    • TeddyTaiwan
      TeddyTaiwan
      Silver
      Joined: 26.02.2011 Posts: 160
      Recently I guess I've been on a down swing playing NL2 and ive been tyring my best to adhere to sort of TAGish ways but it seems like this doesn't work anymore unless you multi table like mad and just wait till you hit premium hands on each.

      Other than that i feel like i should be switching my style. Sometimes play a bit loose. I've seen alot of players winning with a sort of loose play and still getting paid off because I guess people just think they're bluffing too much.
      I guess in the long runs if they make obscene calls its not profitable but i think when you hit a hand or drawing it's more disguised and have a higher probability of getting paid off especially in the micros..

      Or just switch tables when i encounter LAGGY players and carry on TAG style?

      any advice please?
  • 11 replies
    • sapheal
      sapheal
      Global
      Joined: 23.02.2008 Posts: 1,015
      hi Teddy :) ,

      This is a common misconception regarding comparing these two. Many people want to play fancy games by playing a lot of hands without knowing how to play those hands profitably. This is untrue that LAG is better than TAG or that TAG is better than LAG.

      It depends on stakes (tables) that we play on average, on the opponent we're playing. We should focus on asking ourselves – is playing this hand profitable in the long run? Why? It takes a lot of understanding of poker to know exactly what the best way to adjust is.

      The most important thing is that you need to play somewhat tight - ie. your VPIP can't be 47 when you play short-handed.

      I don't think you should change tables- I'd recommend to think as how to tackle those players. I'd also recommend using stats and posting hands in the hand evaluation forums :)

      Cheers :s_thumbsup: ,
      Michal
    • TeddyTaiwan
      TeddyTaiwan
      Silver
      Joined: 26.02.2011 Posts: 160
      Hi coach,

      currently playing full ring NL2.

      But i just see some players who have insane stats all over the place like 60+ vpip and they're making a killing. Not sure how to adjust other than playing tighter, but then to them doesn't when I hit and play aggressively its a read?

      I use elephant but sometimes stats don't show up i don't know if its just the program or not enough hands played with that opponent..
    • nathanrenard
      nathanrenard
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 816
      NL2 Full Ring?

      I'd advise MSS, pretty easy, and people don't get it.
    • TeddyTaiwan
      TeddyTaiwan
      Silver
      Joined: 26.02.2011 Posts: 160
      I'll give the strategy a try and see how it goes

      thanks for advice
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by TeddyTaiwan
      Hi coach,

      currently playing full ring NL2.

      But i just see some players who have insane stats all over the place like 60+ vpip and they're making a killing. Not sure how to adjust other than playing tighter, but then to them doesn't when I hit and play aggressively its a read?

      I use elephant but sometimes stats don't show up i don't know if its just the program or not enough hands played with that opponent..
      They are making a killing in the short run (i.e., they got lucky), but they are losing a lot on the long run. For100% sure.

      To play a decent LAG style you need lots of post-flop, hand reading and player reading skills. And by the time you get those skills you are not @NL2 anymore.
    • patszerdonk
      patszerdonk
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2011 Posts: 834
      Originally posted by TeddyTaiwan
      Hi coach,

      currently playing full ring NL2.

      But i just see some players who have insane stats all over the place like 60+ vpip and they're making a killing. Not sure how to adjust other than playing tighter, but then to them doesn't when I hit and play aggressively its a read?

      I use elephant but sometimes stats don't show up i don't know if its just the program or not enough hands played with that opponent..
      Hi Teddy,
      Are you from Taiwan? We are at similar timezone then. :D I'm from Indonesia

      about the player:
      I have been playing at the micros too NL2 or NL4 and I noticed that "almost all" the players with stats something like 60/5 are very bad, but there are some exceptions. I see a player with stats 80/0 kills the table too. Basically he take the advantage of his "weak player" image and use it for his advantage, because people think he must be a weak player. Basically this is how it work:
      1. It's hard/imposible to guess his range.
      2. he plays decent postflop, and people underestimated it because his preflop stats. I think this is his main weapon.
      3. I PTR him, and I see he is mainly play at higher limit. So he just make fun at the lower limit. He is a better player than me.


      This is how I handle him:
      1. If I am at the BB, I just call. I wont invest more than my BB, except I have good hand (AT+, 22+). If I dont flop something good, I just resign. I see that it pissed him a lot.
      2. If I have position vs him, I sometimes play SC hand.
      3. Just play normal poker postflop. DONT UNDER ESTIMATED HIM!!.
      Ofcourse there are many type of this players, but in general, my advice is dont underestimated them until they prove the opposite.

      Another tips: 60/0 player is almost always more dangerous than 60/10. Guess why?


      about elephant:
      1. It start over after someone join/leave our table. That's why it does not show up for next hand.
      2. If I remember correctly, elephant default to show the HUD is 6 hands. But we can change it to lower i.e. 1 hand.
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Just another 2c of mine: what you guys are talking about is not LAG. Lag is loose-aggressive. Someone playing 65/10 is not aggressive.
    • TeddyTaiwan
      TeddyTaiwan
      Silver
      Joined: 26.02.2011 Posts: 160
      Originally posted by luizsilveira
      Originally posted by TeddyTaiwan
      Hi coach,

      currently playing full ring NL2.

      But i just see some players who have insane stats all over the place like 60+ vpip and they're making a killing. Not sure how to adjust other than playing tighter, but then to them doesn't when I hit and play aggressively its a read?

      I use elephant but sometimes stats don't show up i don't know if its just the program or not enough hands played with that opponent..
      They are making a killing in the short run (i.e., they got lucky), but they are losing a lot on the long run. For100% sure.

      To play a decent LAG style you need lots of post-flop, hand reading and player reading skills. And by the time you get those skills you are not @NL2 anymore.
      Not sure I did a player search and he was playing at my table and NL5 tables so maybe he just came to donk some money off and ended up being a profitable session..
    • TeddyTaiwan
      TeddyTaiwan
      Silver
      Joined: 26.02.2011 Posts: 160
      Originally posted by patszerdonk
      Originally posted by TeddyTaiwan
      Hi coach,

      currently playing full ring NL2.

      But i just see some players who have insane stats all over the place like 60+ vpip and they're making a killing. Not sure how to adjust other than playing tighter, but then to them doesn't when I hit and play aggressively its a read?

      I use elephant but sometimes stats don't show up i don't know if its just the program or not enough hands played with that opponent..
      Hi Teddy,
      Are you from Taiwan? We are at similar timezone then. :D I'm from Indonesia

      about the player:
      I have been playing at the micros too NL2 or NL4 and I noticed that "almost all" the players with stats something like 60/5 are very bad, but there are some exceptions. I see a player with stats 80/0 kills the table too. Basically he take the advantage of his "weak player" image and use it for his advantage, because people think he must be a weak player. Basically this is how it work:
      1. It's hard/imposible to guess his range.
      2. he plays decent postflop, and people underestimated it because his preflop stats. I think this is his main weapon.
      3. I PTR him, and I see he is mainly play at higher limit. So he just make fun at the lower limit. He is a better player than me.


      This is how I handle him:
      1. If I am at the BB, I just call. I wont invest more than my BB, except I have good hand (AT+, 22+). If I dont flop something good, I just resign. I see that it pissed him a lot.
      2. If I have position vs him, I sometimes play SC hand.
      3. Just play normal poker postflop. DONT UNDER ESTIMATED HIM!!.
      Ofcourse there are many type of this players, but in general, my advice is dont underestimated them until they prove the opposite.

      Another tips: 60/0 player is almost always more dangerous than 60/10. Guess why?


      about elephant:
      1. It start over after someone join/leave our table. That's why it does not show up for next hand.
      2. If I remember correctly, elephant default to show the HUD is 6 hands. But we can change it to lower i.e. 1 hand.
      Haha unfortunately just the name not from Taiwan from Australia so i guess close to Indo..

      Thanks for you're advice

      Ive looked into elephant i realised i can change it but stats like fold to cbet or cbet flopp somtimes remain blank even though that opponents been playing like 20+ hands at the table so not sure ?(
    • luizsilveira
      luizsilveira
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.11.2010 Posts: 2,320
      Originally posted by TeddyTaiwan[...]

      Ive looked into elephant i realised i can change it but stats like fold to cbet or cbet flopp somtimes remain blank even though that opponents been playing like 20+ hands at the table so not sure ?(
      20 hands is nothing. In 2 orbits it's not unlikely that there were no cbets from him, or cbets he might have folded to...
    • patszerdonk
      patszerdonk
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2011 Posts: 834
      Originally posted by TeddyTaiwan
      Originally posted by patszerdonk
      Originally posted by TeddyTaiwan
      Hi coach,

      currently playing full ring NL2.

      But i just see some players who have insane stats all over the place like 60+ vpip and they're making a killing. Not sure how to adjust other than playing tighter, but then to them doesn't when I hit and play aggressively its a read?

      I use elephant but sometimes stats don't show up i don't know if its just the program or not enough hands played with that opponent..
      Hi Teddy,
      Are you from Taiwan? We are at similar timezone then. :D I'm from Indonesia

      about the player:
      I have been playing at the micros too NL2 or NL4 and I noticed that "almost all" the players with stats something like 60/5 are very bad, but there are some exceptions. I see a player with stats 80/0 kills the table too. Basically he take the advantage of his "weak player" image and use it for his advantage, because people think he must be a weak player. Basically this is how it work:
      1. It's hard/imposible to guess his range.
      2. he plays decent postflop, and people underestimated it because his preflop stats. I think this is his main weapon.
      3. I PTR him, and I see he is mainly play at higher limit. So he just make fun at the lower limit. He is a better player than me.


      This is how I handle him:
      1. If I am at the BB, I just call. I wont invest more than my BB, except I have good hand (AT+, 22+). If I dont flop something good, I just resign. I see that it pissed him a lot.
      2. If I have position vs him, I sometimes play SC hand.
      3. Just play normal poker postflop. DONT UNDER ESTIMATED HIM!!.
      Ofcourse there are many type of this players, but in general, my advice is dont underestimated them until they prove the opposite.

      Another tips: 60/0 player is almost always more dangerous than 60/10. Guess why?


      about elephant:
      1. It start over after someone join/leave our table. That's why it does not show up for next hand.
      2. If I remember correctly, elephant default to show the HUD is 6 hands. But we can change it to lower i.e. 1 hand.
      Haha unfortunately just the name not from Taiwan from Australia so i guess close to Indo..

      Thanks for you're advice

      Ive looked into elephant i realised i can change it but stats like fold to cbet or cbet flopp somtimes remain blank even though that opponents been playing like 20+ hands at the table so not sure ?(
      I guess it's corelated with my answer #1 above.