Funny thing about Omahahaha (PLO 6max ITT)

    • gavinonymous
      gavinonymous
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,146
      I got the day off work and it's almost 100 degrees outside! I decided to start another blog. I hope this one will help:

      keep track of my progress as I climb stakes.
      motivate me to keep studying, discussing and reviewing hands
      get help and advices from fellow pokerstrategists
      have some fun and interact a bit more.

      I started out a few years ago playing SSS, then SNG, then NLSH, all to varying success (from breakeven to a few $$) I didn't lose the love for the game even through the worst streaks and going broke once.

      SSS wasn't interesting enough but a good way to learn preflop poker
      SNG's were very helpful for preflop play and all around tournament knowledge (learning ICM and Nash ranges is essential)
      NLSH was fun and great to learn, even if I was breakeven and impatient.

      I also play around with FL, and HORSE games to widen my experience, but I'm a beginner at best. FL is great for understanding lines. I have no idea how Razz helps your game (I've heard it can mess it up too! :) )

      PLO appeals to me as the game right now with the highest percentage of bad-average players including many maniacs and some of the most insane fish you can imagine. PLO seems to be a game where (at least at micros) players love to tilt off stacks much easier than NL Hold'em. The traffic seems good at all hours and the game has a lot of action.

      This is the first time I've played almost exclusively PLO. I'm playing with 40BI at NL25 (I know the variance can be huge so I'm prepared)

      These days I'm 2-8 tabling. I use a HUD set up from HEM leakfinder. Mostly I'm looking at VPIP/PFR Agg, 3bet, and occasionally others. not enough sample to trust it more than a general idea of fish/maniac/tag.

      I find reading about PLO is fascinating - especially as I'm interested in fuzzy logic. I've read two great books so far and looking for more. ATM I'm working through all the leakfinder videos - they are well put together if a bit dry.

      My initial goals for PLO.

      be able to play against any PLO25 player with confidence
      keep aggression preflop and postflop.
      raise and isolate rather than limp and overcall in position when possible.
      work on 3bet-4bet situations
      keep the red line horizontal or upwards
      play appropriately against fish and LAGtards
      move up to PLO50


      my PLO leaks so far:

      calling on the river to catch a bluff too often
      not building pots wth good hands
      not raising/3betting enough pf
      not raising cbets enough
      getting it in too light against mid-stacks/not understanding mid-stack odds and ranges.
      giving up too many small pots and negative red line leak (prob from not having initiative enough pf - this is changing)

      I hope you enjoy reading this and feel free to offer help/advice on hands and situations. I'll try to keep it interesting and maybe even profitable!

      Good fortune on the tables :f_cool:
  • 6 replies
    • gavinonymous
      gavinonymous
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,146
      This hand is interesting to see how I can easily get sucked into huge pots that start out very innocently. When I get such great immediate odds to my nut draws multiway, not throwing my stack in would have been a mistake IMO.

      CO: $27.34
      BTN: $29.66
      Hero (SB): $24.75
      BB: $41.08
      UTG: $10.71

      Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with 8 :club: 5 :heart: K :club: A :club:
      UTG calls $0.25, CO raises to $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.90, BB calls $0.75, UTG calls $0.75

      CO is very spewy and everyone is fishy on this table. I decide not to raise because everyone will just call me and I don't want to start a big pot multiway with this hand. I decide not to fold because AKs can draw to the nuts, and good for stacking multiway as someone might get it in with worse flushes or straights if we both hit = immediate + implied odds.

      Flop: ($4.00) Q :club: T :club: 7 :spade: (4 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $2.50, UTG raises to $9.71, CO raises to $26.34, Hero calls $23.75 all in, BB calls $23.84

      Good flop for me. Two nut draws, and lots of room for smaller flushes and straights. I planned to check-raise the flop but don't get the chance. CO's shove gives me 37% pot odds. I'm almost certain that BB will call off their stack too which more than justifies a call - a no brainer. I have to call - which is the funny thing about Omahahaha. This time I hit.

      Turn: ($90.14) 3 :club: (4 players - 1 is all in)

      River: ($90.14) 5 :spade: (4 players - 1 is all in)

      Final Pot: $90.14
      CO shows 9c Jd 7c Th (all draws to non-nuts on the flop - why raise when you only get called by better?)
      Hero shows 8c 5h Kc Ac
      BB shows Js 3h Qh Qs (top set on the flop - not much else.. is it worth calling off against this much action?)
      UTG mucks Ts Kh 9d Qd (top two pair a gutshot and no nut draws)
      Hero wins $40.84
      (Rake: $2.00)

      8c5hKcAc 36.57% 215,496 8,196
      Js3hQhQs 46.16% 267,694 19,093
      9cJd7cTh 14.43% 75,181 23,303
      TsKh9dQd 2.83% 11,390 11,658

      next hand is a against a reg/grinder that 3bets with a med-wide range - I'm not sure how wide, maybe AA** is 1/4 of his range.

      SB: $7.92
      BB: $25.00
      UTG: $35.05
      MP: $10.00
      CO: $26.15
      Hero (BTN): $29.45

      Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with Q :club: J :club: Q :spade: A :diamond:
      3 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, BB raises to $2.35, Hero calls $1.60

      I'm not sure a 4bet is a good idea so I just flat. I have position and a good postflop hand.

      Flop: ($4.80) 5 :club: 2 :diamond: 6 :club: (2 players)
      BB bets $3.25, Hero raises to $14.31, BB raises to $22.65, Hero calls $8.34

      I figured standard continuation bet, I have good equity against some hands, and a dog against hands like AA and sets, I don't think he's 3betting low pairs in hindsight.

      Against a range including AAxx, 66xx, 56xx, AKQJ (e.g.) I have decent equity and fold equity to raise the flop. If I flat then I don't get paid on many turn cards that make my hand, and might even be drawing dead?

      I raise pot - though now I'm thinking maybe could raise a bit less to make it cheaper when I'm behind and he flats? He 3bets and its an easy call. I figure he thinks he's up against possible AA** hand or a flush draw where he's got decent equity


      QcJcQsAd 47.48% 283,341 3,051
      56**, AA**, AK**, 789T, 5678, 66** 52.52% 313,608 3,051

      [img]http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=lxy&chd=t:0,6.55,6.55,7.3,7.34,7.34,7.92,7.93,10.09,10.09,10.12,15.39,15.5,15.5,17.46,17.59,21.31,21.31,21.34,23.25,23.33,23.33,25.9,25.97,29.43,29.43,29.5,31.67,31.75,33.25,33.25,33.35,34.72,34.82,34.82,35.97,36.02,37.37,37.37,37.44,38.55,38.63,38.63,39.58,39.65,40.25,40.25,40.31,41.05,41.08,41.08,42.22,42.32,43.64,43.67,43.67,45.56,45.61,47.73,47.73,47.78,50.76,50.82,50.82,54.6,54.69,57.0,57.0,57.06,59.67,59.72,59.72,62.52,62.55,65.9,65.9,65.98,72.04,72.08,78.64,78.64,78.65,82.14,82.14,82.14,83.87,83.93,85.09,85.09,85.11,86.74,86.77,86.77,87.41,87.43,93.3,93.3,93.32,94.8,94.81,100.0|100,99.0,98.0,97.0,96.0,95.0,94.0,93.0,92.0,91.0,90.0,89.0,88.0,87.0,86.0,85.0,84.0,83.0,82.0,81.0,80.0,79.0,78.0,77.0,76.0,75.0,74.0,73.0,72.0,71.0,70.0,69.0,68.0,67.0,66.0,65.0,64.0,63.0,62.0,61.0,60.0,59.0,58.0,57.0,56.0,55.0,54.0,53.0,52.0,51.0,50.0,49.0,48.0,47.0,46.0,45.0,44.0,43.0,42.0,41.0,40.0,39.0,38.0,37.0,36.0,35.0,34.0,33.0,32.0,31.0,30.0,29.0,28.0,27.0,26.0,25.0,24.0,23.0,22.0,21.0,20.0,19.0,18.0,17.0,16.0,15.0,14.0,13.0,12.0,11.0,10.0,9.0,8.0,7.0,6.0,5.0,4.0,3.0,2.0,1.0,0.0&chs=600x400&chds=0,100&chxt=x,y,x,y,t&chxl=0:| 0|10|20|30|40|50|60|70|80|90|100|1:| 0|10|20|30|40|50|60|70|80|90|100|2:| |Percentage+of+turns||3:| |Min.%20Equity||4:| |Propokertools.com|&chxs=0,000000|1,000000&chxtc=0,-400|1,-600&chf=bg,s,DDFFDD&chco=D13621[/img]

      Turn: ($50.10) 2 :club: (2 players)

      River: ($50.10) 4 :heart: (2 players)

      Final Pot: $50.10
      BB shows 7 :diamond: 5 :diamond: 6 :spade: 9 :spade:
      Hero shows Q :club: J :club: Q :spade: A :diamond:
      Hero wins $48.10
      (Rake: $2.00)

      QcJcQsAd 49.12% 596,798 376
      7d5d6s9s 50.88% 618,066 376

      Close to a flip, I don't like opponent's 3bet preflop with this hand. Amazingly he has better odds than with 9876 or 9875 (he's a slight underdog) but with 9865 he's a slight favourite with the gap in the middle. In any case 3betting with these hands has big variance. I'm not sure how I'd play his hand after 3betting it - maybe hope to see a cheap showdown and hold up - fold to a club?

      QcJcQsAd 53.93% 323,491 177
      9876 46.07% 276,332 17

      QcJcQsAd 53.99% 323,865 150
      9875 46.01% 275,985 150

      QcJcQsAd 47.87% 287,091 237
      9865 52.13% 312,672 237
    • aceonetheriver
      aceonetheriver
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.12.2008 Posts: 591
      I like this, gd luck man
    • gavinonymous
      gavinonymous
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,146
      thanks aotr. I try to write something that I'd find useful to read also.

      I'm having some fatigue from constant bad beats. I guess if you are a good player you'll get more of them than a bad one. Still 6 BI below EV is a bitch - even if you can win back 4 BI in a 100 hands or so.

      I'm overrolled now for my limit thanks to a milestone hand, so I can't whine too much. I took a couple of shots at PLO50 and won a stack there - it was a thrill, especially since I shoved my stack raising the flop with only 35% equity and hit. I don't know why I expected he would fold.. I'll post the hand to see what happened.


      BB: $45.00
      UTG: $47.05
      Hero (MP): $54.65
      CO: $50.25
      BTN: $56.40
      SB: $26.60

      Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is MP with A :spade: 9 :heart: 2 :spade: A :heart:
      UTG calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, 2 folds, SB calls $0.25, BB checks

      Flop: ($2.00) 6 :heart: J :diamond: 7 :heart: (4 players)
      SB bets $1.00, BB raises to $4.90, UTG folds, Hero raises to $17.60, SB folds, BB raises to $30.30, Hero raises to $54.15, BB calls $14.20 all in

      Turn: ($92.00) T :heart: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      River: ($92.00) K :spade: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      Final Pot: $92.00
      BB shows 3 :spade: 3 :diamond: 6 :spade: 6 :club:
      Hero shows A :spade: 9 :heart: 2 :spade: A :heart:
      Hero wins $89.00
      (Rake: $3.00)

      I have to think about this hand a while. I'm sure many mistakes were made all around.

      I could have raised pf with double suited AA.
      I could have flatted the flop
      BB could have tried for a cheap showdown or wait for a safe turn card.
      I thought my equity was higher - closer to 45/50 percent.

      Any thoughts? I'll post in the forum.
    • gavinonymous
      gavinonymous
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,146
      thought this was worth a post as I was really surprised by it. Villain insta left the table after prob feeling like a donkey, but was actually 45% against my hand so maybe a good play postflop (by accident?)

      BB: $19.56
      UTG: $51.02
      MP: $21.65
      CO: $27.17
      BTN: $50.09
      Hero (SB): $30.65

      Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with Q :heart: A :heart: T :heart: K :club:
      1 fold, MP raises to $0.75, CO calls $0.75, BTN calls $0.75, Hero raises to $4, BB calls $3.75, 1 fold, CO calls $3.25, BTN calls $3.25

      Flop: ($16.75) 3 :heart: 5 :club: J :heart: (4 players)
      Hero bets $15.92, BB folds, CO raises to $23.17, BTN folds, Hero calls $7.25

      Turn: ($63.09) 7 :heart: (2 players)

      River: ($63.09) A :club: (2 players)

      Final Pot: $63.09
      CO mucks 4 :spade: Q :spade: J :club: 7 :diamond:
      Hero shows Q :heart: A :heart: T :heart: K :club:
      Hero wins $61.09
      (Rake: $2.00)

      4sQsJc7d 45.25% 545,149 9,498
      AhQhThKc 54.75% 660,593 9,498

      even if villain puts me on AA, she is still doing ok.

      4sQsJc7d 45.27% 159,717 4,166
      AAxx 54.73% 193,504 4,166

      makes me think about all the times I got raised off mediocre/crap looking hands on a flush draw flop and what might have happened had I called or shoved.
    • gavinonymous
      gavinonymous
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,146
      trying out some new strategy from training videos and articles i'm reading.. things are improving.. still swingy as can be. I have to trust I'll eventually win 54% of my 54/46 hands, and hold up on 70% of my 70/30s, and even 90% of my.. well u get it.

      here's a couple more hands for comments.. I'm surprised my all in is correct in the first hand even knowing I'm going up against the flush draw and the made straight - I have to go all in!

      BB: $12.64
      UTG: $5.46
      CO: $9.42
      Hero (BTN): $32.98
      SB: $2.41

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with K :diamond: Q :heart: 8 :spade: K :heart:
      UTG raises to $0.30, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.30, 1 fold, BB calls $0.20

      Flop: ($0.95) Q :club: K :spade: T :club: (3 players)
      BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $0.91, BB raises to $3.64, UTG raises to $5.16 all in, Hero raises to $20.03, BB calls $8.70 all in

      Turn: ($30.79) T :spade: (3 players - 2 are all in)

      River: ($30.79) 8 :club: (3 players - 2 are all in)

      Final Pot: $30.79
      BB shows A :spade: A :diamond: 5 :spade: J :spade: (a straight, Ten to Ace)
      UTG mucks 2 :spade: 6 :club: 4 :spade: A :club:
      Hero shows K :diamond: Q :heart: 8 :spade: K :heart: (a full house, Kings full of Tens)
      Hero wins $13.64
      Hero wins $15.62
      (Rake: $1.53)



      MP: $10.78
      CO: $22.22
      BTN: $20.54
      SB: $28.44
      Hero (BB): $10.84
      UTG: $14.53

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with 9 :heart: A :heart: 6 :heart: 8 :club:
      4 folds, SB raises to $0.30, Hero calls $0.20

      Flop: ($0.60) 6 :diamond: 7 :spade: K :diamond: (2 players)
      SB bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50

      Turn: ($1.60) T :club: (2 players)
      SB bets $1, Hero raises to $4.53, SB raises to $8.06, Hero raises to $10.04 all in, SB calls $1.98

      River: ($21.68) 4 :club: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      Final Pot: $21.68
      SB shows T :diamond: 9 :club: Q :diamond: 9 :spade: (a pair of Tens)
      Hero shows 9 :heart: A :heart: 6 :heart: 8 :club: (a straight, Six to Ten)
      Hero wins $20.60
      (Rake: $1.08)
    • gavinonymous
      gavinonymous
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2008 Posts: 1,146
      I know villain has aces here but I think a call is +EV preflop, and certainly postflop.

      MP: $12.37 CO: $28.64 Hero (BTN): $24.65 SB: $20.10 BB: $39.13UTG: $36.69

      Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with Q :heart: T :diamond: A :diamond: K :spade:
      1 fold, MP raises to $0.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2.50, 1 fold, BB raises to $8.35, 1 fold, Hero calls $5.85

      pot odds to call are 39%. I have good equity on a large number of flops, and smooth postflop potential. I think a calculation might show it is +EV, that'll take me a bit to work out

      [img]http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=lxy&chd=t:0,0.07,0.67,1.57,1.63,2.02,2.71,3.05,3.5,4.07,4.37,4.49,4.62,4.88,4.95,5.04,5.22,5.45,5.55,5.89,6.17,6.42,6.88,7.22,7.66,7.82,8.18,8.35,8.59,8.99,9.43,9.74,10.33,10.76,10.98,11.32,11.64,11.78,12.03,12.16,12.54,12.85,13.39,13.93,14.43,15.32,16.03,16.92,18.2,19.06,19.71,20.72,21.32,22.22,23.0,24.46,25.65,26.62,28.2,29.92,30.94,31.73,32.41,33.24,34.35,35.55,36.84,38.72,41.1,42.98,44.82,46.41,48.13,49.56,50.84,51.76,52.77,53.9,55.23,55.98,56.58,57.61,58.61,59.7,60.8,62.84,65.48,67.44,68.75,71.09,74.5,78.12,81.13,83.34,85.97,89.64,92.66,94.85,96.43,97.99,100.0|100,99.0,98.0,97.0,96.0,95.0,94.0,93.0,92.0,91.0,90.0,89.0,88.0,87.0,86.0,85.0,84.0,83.0,82.0,81.0,80.0,79.0,78.0,77.0,76.0,75.0,74.0,73.0,72.0,71.0,70.0,69.0,68.0,67.0,66.0,65.0,64.0,63.0,62.0,61.0,60.0,59.0,58.0,57.0,56.0,55.0,54.0,53.0,52.0,51.0,50.0,49.0,48.0,47.0,46.0,45.0,44.0,43.0,42.0,41.0,40.0,39.0,38.0,37.0,36.0,35.0,34.0,33.0,32.0,31.0,30.0,29.0,28.0,27.0,26.0,25.0,24.0,23.0,22.0,21.0,20.0,19.0,18.0,17.0,16.0,15.0,14.0,13.0,12.0,11.0,10.0,9.0,8.0,7.0,6.0,5.0,4.0,3.0,2.0,1.0,0.0&chs=450x300&chds=0,100&chxt=x,y,x,y,t&chxl=0:| 0|10|20|30|40|50|60|70|80|90|100|1:| 0|10|20|30|40|50|60|70|80|90|100|2:| |Percentage+of+flops||3:| |Min.%20Equity||4:| |Propokertools.com|&chxs=0,000000|1,000000&chxtc=0,-300|1,-450&chf=bg,s,DDFFDD&chco=D13621[/img]

      Flop: ($17.55) 5 :heart: 8 :diamond: Q :diamond: (2 players)
      BB bets $16.68, Hero calls $16.30 all in

      I should have taken less time to snap call I have 60% or so against AA which is why I called preflop.

      AdQhKcTd 56.59% 1,212,314 11,371
      AA** 43.41% 928,815 11,371

      [img]http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=lxy&chd=t:0,17.89,17.89,21.2,21.2,21.2,21.31,21.31,23.78,23.78,23.78,24.87,24.87,27.15,27.15,27.15,30.71,30.95,31.31,32.33,32.33,33.18,33.23,34.72,34.72,34.72,34.84,34.84,35.11,35.13,35.13,35.53,35.57,36.05,36.05,36.05,36.31,36.31,36.56,36.67,36.67,36.78,36.78,36.82,36.85,36.85,36.85,36.85,36.85,36.85,36.85,38.35,38.35,41.91,42.09,42.09,45.88,46.62,48.04,48.51,48.51,59.07,59.32,72.38,73.83,73.83,80.0,80.58,83.0,83.47,83.47,83.89,83.91,89.14,89.14,89.14,95.13,95.52,98.19,98.63,98.63,99.08,99.21,99.63,99.63,99.63,99.72,99.72,99.72,99.72,99.72,99.72,99.72,99.72,99.72,99.72,99.72,99.72,99.72,99.72,100.0|100,99.0,98.0,97.0,96.0,95.0,94.0,93.0,92.0,91.0,90.0,89.0,88.0,87.0,86.0,85.0,84.0,83.0,82.0,81.0,80.0,79.0,78.0,77.0,76.0,75.0,74.0,73.0,72.0,71.0,70.0,69.0,68.0,67.0,66.0,65.0,64.0,63.0,62.0,61.0,60.0,59.0,58.0,57.0,56.0,55.0,54.0,53.0,52.0,51.0,50.0,49.0,48.0,47.0,46.0,45.0,44.0,43.0,42.0,41.0,40.0,39.0,38.0,37.0,36.0,35.0,34.0,33.0,32.0,31.0,30.0,29.0,28.0,27.0,26.0,25.0,24.0,23.0,22.0,21.0,20.0,19.0,18.0,17.0,16.0,15.0,14.0,13.0,12.0,11.0,10.0,9.0,8.0,7.0,6.0,5.0,4.0,3.0,2.0,1.0,0.0&chs=450x300&chds=0,100&chxt=x,y,x,y,t&chxl=0:| 0|10|20|30|40|50|60|70|80|90|100|1:| 0|10|20|30|40|50|60|70|80|90|100|2:| |Percentage+of+turns||3:| |Min.%20Equity||4:| |Propokertools.com|&chxs=0,000000|1,000000&chxtc=0,-300|1,-450&chf=bg,s,DDFFDD&chco=D13621[/img]

      Turn: ($50.15) 7 :club: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      River: ($50.15) 9 :club: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      Now to hope this happens 100 times with the same player, position and stacks!