How to keep your cool after being severely set up?

    • acerbikas
      acerbikas
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.01.2011 Posts: 229
      Hey,

      I was wondering how do you guys keep your cool after terrible situations on the board occur in Omaha. At first I admit I was tilting badly, then I sort of took control after I had reviewed which hands I had played well and which I have not. But at times the bubble bursts.

      Just now I had two severe setups in a row.

      AJK3 against AAxx. On a flop of 363 I try to trap my opponent believing that having limped preflop he would not have an AAx hand or KKx. Given how I block these outs, there is but one out remaining for AA and KK remains possible. On the flop only 63 or 66 beat me and I find it unlikely. He comes forth and I flat it. Turn comes A. I try to put him on a range but he just vigilantly checks back and let's me raise the pot. There are two possible hands that beat me and I cannot narrow it down to such range : 66xx and AAxx. River comes J and I have potential blockers for any hand that beats me. I commit to the pot only to see his AA daunting @ my face. One-outter for the win -- yaaaay!

      Then comes another situation 5 hands later. I hold ATK9. Doubly gapped suited connector, I limp in the pot with 3 more players. The board brings K9K. Again I try to trap my opponent (but I AM sure the oppponent would have called me regardless). I have the nuts and I am 100% I am winning this unless it is a J or Q. Given how a 6 outter is unlikely, I willingly commit myself to the pot on the turn. Guess what? He shows KQ5J and the turn is Q. A 6 outter? Again? Just after a setup? Come on how likely is that? And I lose.

      I feel like Hellmuth trying to slowroll people and them hitting their one- to six-outters and losing 2 BI with my BRM is a huge loss, especially seeing how my hands get torn one by one.

      How do you deal with such situations? Please enlighten me. Should I just drop slowrolling? Or should I just laugh at these setups and say "LET THEM COME!"? But losing money ain't what I wish for and seeing this happen makes me frown upon everything.
  • 17 replies
    • Ribbo
      Ribbo
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2010 Posts: 6,157
      It seems to me what you're asking is, how do you not go broke with A3 vs AA on an A33 board. The answer is, you go broke and you chalk it up to variance. :f_biggrin:

      Dealing with variance is certainly very important in all forms of poker, but in Omaha, you will certainly see your fair share of it. The only real answer is experience. As you play more and more Omaha, you will experience pretty much everything. Personally I have been on both sides of 1 outers on multiple occasions and the coup de grace was losing an $800 pot with 88 vs KK on a board of 884 (all the money went in on the flop and the turn and river were both kings obviously).

      I will suggest for the moment, that should you find yourself on the wrong side of one of these , take a break for the rest of the day, because what happens afterwards wont be pretty if you keep playing, that's for sure. :f_biggrin:
    • acerbikas
      acerbikas
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.01.2011 Posts: 229
      I instantly went to rest after posting this as I already knew from experience how tilted I could become when I got ripped off like that. Then again, all of these experiences makes me frown upon omaha whenever it happens. And it starts to happen quite often.
    • Ribbo
      Ribbo
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2010 Posts: 6,157
      Originally posted by acerbikas
      I instantly went to rest after posting this as I already knew from experience how tilted I could become when I got ripped off like that. Then again, all of these experiences makes me frown upon omaha whenever it happens. And it starts to happen quite often.
      Of course, it will happen a lot. The main reason it happens is you think you have a RIGHT to win the pot when you're favourite. The only time you have a right to win a pot is when you're 100% to win. Anything less than that and you have to accept that sometimes, your opponent will win.

      Of course there are also plenty of times I am sure that you have won when you were not favourite. Maybe you should review your hands and look at the times you got lucky to remind yourself that luck does indeed work for you as often as it works against you.
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,918
      Human mind isn't optimized for poker :D

      We remember those badbeats WAY more than our goodbeats.

      Like if you lose a pot to 1 outer, it makes you pretty mad. And you remember to tell it to your friends even days after it happened. But when you suckout with 1 out, you fistpump and yell "justice" and move to next hand.
    • L3ST
      L3ST
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 413
      Happens. Usually when I have 2nd nuts FH and get raised I just throw it away vs good opponents. If fish luckboxes, that's it.

      BTW, trapping in PLO seems not to be efficient at all unless you're vs super aggresive player. For example, on 363 I bet regardless if I have a 3, 6's or air/AAxx. I'm gonna attack the board since it's hard to connect with it. Trapping just might give my opponent the hand he needs.

      Why you say 2 buyins is big loss with your BRM? How many buyins you have for you limit and what limit is that?
    • acerbikas
      acerbikas
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.01.2011 Posts: 229
      20x 100bb BI, 50x 40bb for PLO25. Used to have more before I got a big chunk cut out of my BR. I know this is far from optimal, but seeing how PP does not offer cheaper cash games, I have to adapt.

      Also, what concerns the other rooms, I am taking a break from Stars. I got seriously all too tilty on that room and practically lost all the profit I had once made (from rakeback, not cash games themselves, I could break even+ had like 200$ from tourneys at some point which dropped back to like 50$). 2nd set to top set, set over sd/fd AI on the flop and losing all the time (which in itself was not optimal apparently, but I thought otherwise at the time) made me realize I have to sort out my priorities.

      As for suckouts, I reviewed my HEM hand history since July 1st (when I first started using it) and yet, there were more 70-90% losses than 5-30% wins so I believe I am rather justified on that perspective. Winning one big suckout does not improve your mood when you get sucked out 4-5 times later. Coinflips were at about 1w:1.5l but usually I was not the favourite.

      And yet, being rivered is what destroys me most of the time (which is the "favourite" thing people referred to). I believe the opponent has a FD or SD and is drawing to a maximum of 9 outs (usually less, 5-6max) with my set since the flop and outdraws me on the river. I lose once, I lose twice, no biggie. Then I win a small pot without him rivering it aaaand again I lose twice the amount I won.

      I know this is what poker is usually about and it happens and it is inevitable. The only thing to change, apart from skills, is my mindset and this is what I am trying to do. I do not want to end up a Phil Hellmuth-like behaving ******* when I improve my game, though my impulsive and explosive character contributes a lot to that.
    • L3ST
      L3ST
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 413
      PLO is also about Fold Equity. With 40BB stack you don't have too much fold equity since you have bit over pot-size or near pot-size on the flop in 3bet pots.
      Anyway, shortstacking has bit more variance since regs playing 100BB+ with 50+buyins won't really respect your 40BB stack.
      Also in multi-way pots you're less favoured to win since full stacks will be playing for side pot, giving them a better chance to suckout on you.


      From my POV you're walking a thin line here, I'd consider switching rooms to some that offer lower games, like Bwin ( PLO10 with 10/10 BB ).

      My BR is also about 500$ and I switched to MTT's for a while and just playing the ocasional PLO5/PLO10 with 100BB stacks since I'm on a downswing also.
    • Ribbo
      Ribbo
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2010 Posts: 6,157
      I always tell people to assume fold equity does not exist in PLO (because it's a very small part of PLO). At that point students stop trying ridiculous bluffs that will never work and their winrate indubitably improves. :f_biggrin:
    • hackbinder
      hackbinder
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 618
      and their winrate indubitably improves.


      Awesome use of the word "indubitably"!

      :f_thumbsup:
    • L3ST
      L3ST
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 413
      Originally posted by Ribbo
      I always tell people to assume fold equity does not exist in PLO (because it's a very small part of PLO). At that point students stop trying ridiculous bluffs that will never work and their winrate indubitably improves. :f_biggrin:
      I think I was reffering more to reverse implied odds and fold equity. When you're like 100-150 BBs people won't draw very thin to 2nd or 3rd nuts when you're betting big whilst with 40BB stack they'll put you on aces with no real redraw and just ship it lightly.
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      If losng 2BI at omaha is a 'huge loss' as OP puts it, then I humbly suggest either playing lower or giving it a miss until the BR - and the mindset - can accommodate.
      GL.
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,918
      No matter how tight or loose you play, you have to accept that 10 buy-in swings are part of omaha. If you keep playing, you WILL have a losing streaks of about 10bin's sooner or later. And winning streaks too.
    • L3ST
      L3ST
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 413
      Still feeling bad?




      Yep, mine, July. Yep, 32 of those 100s 10 cent BB.
    • Kyyberi
      Kyyberi
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,918
      Now we are talking, running 30bin under EV!
    • blackops888
      blackops888
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 502
      Originally posted by L3ST
      Still feeling bad?




      Yep, mine, July. Yep, 32 of those 100s 10 cent BB.
      I'm not feeling bad with my $500 downswing on PLO10 and PLO20 anymore. Thanks for that, with all my heart. :f_biggrin:
    • blackops888
      blackops888
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 502
      Originally posted by Ribbo
      I always tell people to assume fold equity does not exist in PLO (because it's a very small part of PLO). At that point students stop trying ridiculous bluffs that will never work and their winrate indubitably improves. :f_biggrin:
      I remember when Kyyberi spared some time sweating me on the Skype group. I was struggling with some c-bets that never worked and was like "I can't make those mother$%¨#¨fold, no matter what I do!" on the chat. And he typed...

      "Then just check."

      I was like :s_confused: :s_confused: :s_confused: OMFG Never considered this possibility.

      And from then on I started picking more carefully the boards in which I'd c-bet. I much prefer the semi-bluff in position or check-behind-with-trash now vs loose-passives but still c-bet dry boards vs regulars and competent guys. It really made the game easier.
    • ClimaxingWalrus
      ClimaxingWalrus
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.10.2010 Posts: 132
      Originally posted by Kyyberi
      Human mind isn't optimized for poker :D

      We remember those badbeats WAY more than our goodbeats.

      Like if you lose a pot to 1 outer, it makes you pretty mad. And you remember to tell it to your friends even days after it happened. But when you suckout with 1 out, you fistpump and yell "justice" and move to next hand.
      lmao you made my day... I did that word for word about an hour ago