Winning or learning ?

    • Stevos1938
      Stevos1938
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.02.2009 Posts: 270
      Hey guys,

      I've seen several mid and high stakes player giving the advice to micro stakes players to play a lot looser and try out a lot of things for the sake of learning. Making 10 mistakes at NL10 is cheaper than making one mistakes at NL200.

      Now i was wondering if someone could elaborate on this ? Like what should we try out ?

      Just playing a lot of hands ? Or 3betting a lot if position with semi-strong hands, etc . ?
  • 3 replies
    • jdnismo
      jdnismo
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.07.2010 Posts: 193
      I haven't played NL10 so I don't know what the quality of players is like, but I wouldn't try out things like 3-betting light and 3-betting a polarised range, etc., and other advanced moves at NL2 or NL4. The players at those stakes aren't thinking players, so even if you're winning money with these moves it might be for the wrong reasons. The players at NL2 and NL4 aren't going to adjust to your game so when players do start adjusting at higher stakes, you might think you can still pull off these things in the same way you did at the micros and carry over bad habits and leaks from the micros that you didn't even know you had.

      And anyway, if one practises proper BRM and always reviews his game then mistakes at NL200 won't be so costly and will be fixable. Just my opinion.

      Also, the main reason why we use these moves is to exploit other players, and at NL2 and NL4, we are already exploiting them by playing ABC poker :f_cool: .

      We only need to be thinking one level above them, not 2.
    • EuanM
      EuanM
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2011 Posts: 531
      jsnismo, I agree to an extent.

      Given recent developments in the Poker world, I think it's fair to say that there are a significant amount more, maybe even a gamechanging amount of good / decent players, playing at microstakes. It's very difficult to judge these things, but with the fulltilt situation I would expect player quality to have increased at microstakes, and along with this, the underestimation that people give each other at these stakes.

      There is certainly potential for exploitation if you can identify the differences of the players at the table. Being hyperaggressive at microstakes can be successful.

      Personally, I've implemented changes in my game at NL10 to include extra aggression, and people seem to be folding very often late post-flop and on the river aswell, but my sample size is not large enough to say for sure. If you tell a convincing story throughout the hand, people seem to be much less inclined to pay to see your cards and will often fold.



      IMO, At microstakes, adapting your game from ABC poker absolutely teaches you more, and it's a fantastic practice ground, especially these days, to try out a new style of play. I switched from TAG, to loose hyper aggressive play and the effect has been positive so far.

      As far as the highstakes players advice goes, they play much higher stakes and are required to analyse the game more, which a lot of people consider unnecessary at microstakes. It would say it is more or less encouragement to get into frequent tough spots at microstakes to gain more exposure to how the game plays, in contrast with the strategy advice at microstakes, which gives the general idea of simplistic descisions pre-flop and quite a neglected post-flop game.

      Whatever you believe, micros shouldn't be underestimated and the amount you learn all depends on how dedicated you are. If you open up your game at micros, you'll totally learn a lot!

      Take care,
      -E
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      My own experiences show that taking micros for granted and saying they aren't 'thinking' players, is an underestimate these days, especially concerning the regulars.
      I have been playing and owning nl4 full ring and 6max for some time now and in the last 12 months or so I have come across quite a few payers who were outplaying me and I had to find another table.
      Admittedly these are usually around at weekends and hoidays, but they are there.

      I am convinced the micros game is moving on from non-thinking just press buttons fish and easily exploitable regs and not too slowly either. This makes sites like P.S. and it's staff even more valuable to those of us who want to stay ahead of the game.

      GL.