[NL2-NL10] nl5 sh a3

    • Jim4rdo
      Jim4rdo
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2010 Posts: 1,252
      Villain 67/24/1.6 agg, fold cb to raise 0% over 50 hands.

      Felt raising flop was ok here?

      I thought he might have been floating the flop, and so I prefered to just check turn.

      When he bets the river, I think he has an ace, and I feel he's loose enough to call any ace, and since I have higher 2 pair this seems a good spot to raise?

      Thanks!

      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.05(BB) Replayer
      SB ($5.14)
      Hero ($5.45)
      UTG ($0.62)
      CO ($5)
      BTN ($4.33)

      Dealt to Hero 3:club: A:heart:

      fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $0.10, Hero calls $0.05

      FLOP ($0.20) 2:diamond: 2:spade: 3:spade:

      SB bets $0.15, Hero raises to $0.50, SB calls $0.35

      TURN ($1.20) 2:diamond: 2:spade: 3:spade: K:club:

      SB checks, Hero checks

      RIVER ($1.20) 2:diamond: 2:spade: 3:spade: K:club: A:club:

      SB bets $0.30, Hero raises to $1, SB calls $0.70
  • 4 replies
    • Bierbaer
      Bierbaer
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2005 Posts: 7,989
      Originally posted by Jim4rdo
      Ok so the last hands I posted my thoughts, now it's your turn ;) .

      Villain 67/24/1.6 agg, fold cb to raise 0% over 50 hands.

      Felt raising flop was ok here?
      Reason?
      Don't "feel", make an argument for your plays.


      I thought he might have been floating the flop, and so I prefered to just check turn.
      What range do you think he 'floats', i.e. which missed hands are going to bet/call the flop?

      When he bets the river, I think he has an ace, and I feel he's loose enough to call any ace, and since I have higher 2 pair this seems a good spot to raise?
      Why do you think he has an ace?
      Look at his flop bet-calling-range, try to examine what of this he's checking on the turn and which of the hands he could bet so small on the river.

      [/color]
      Unmark the hand once you did this so I'll see it.
    • Jim4rdo
      Jim4rdo
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2010 Posts: 1,252
      Okay, I'll try and explain my thought processes for doing it, whether they're right or wrong :)

      Flop:

      Suppose this villain we can't really give a proper range to, so can't really say on the flop. But I felt that villain would c-bet his whole range, and since i've only got a low pair, I wanted to try and protect against any higher cards, and maybe even get value if he's just betting this with kq, ax, and doesn't want to give up his hand since he seems to be a bit of a station.

      Turn:

      I suppose my thinking here really goes against what I was thinking on the flop. If he's floating with Ax, connectors, I'm still pretty much ahead of his range, so I could have barrelled again if this is what I thought, especially since I realise betting flop and checking turn makes it look like I was just c-betting with and giving up on the turn.

      But also turn is a pretty good bluff card anyway, because if he's floating with Ax he's more likely to fold, and also possibly would fold weak overpairs to the 3, underpairs to the kings now too?

      River:

      "Why do you think he has an ace?
      Look at his flop bet-calling-range, try to examine what of this he's checking on the turn and which of the hands he could bet so small on the river."

      Hmm, really here his bet on river after checking turn makes it look like he has an overpair, so is doing it as some kind of weird bluff/block bet.

      But: He hadn't shown any aggression throughout the hand, and to suddenly donk out with any bet made me think he had an ace here. And since he is a station anyway, he may call with underpair or an ace, both which I beat, so I can get value?
    • Bierbaer
      Bierbaer
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2005 Posts: 7,989
      Originally posted by Jim4rdo
      Okay, I'll try and explain my thought processes for doing it, whether they're right or wrong :)

      Flop:

      Suppose this villain we can't really give a proper range to, so can't really say on the flop. But I felt that villain would c-bet his whole range, and since i've only got a low pair, I wanted to try and protect against any higher cards, and maybe even get value if he's just betting this with kq, ax, and doesn't want to give up his hand since he seems to be a bit of a station.
      I agree that we're ahead of his range because he probably cbets a lot and his range is potentially very wide.

      So what you're saying is that you're raising for value, which is ok. See turn for more.


      Turn:

      I suppose my thinking here really goes against what I was thinking on the flop. If he's floating with Ax, connectors, I'm still pretty much ahead of his range, so I could have barrelled again if this is what I thought, especially since I realise betting flop and checking turn makes it look like I was just c-betting with and giving up on the turn.
      This is exactly what I was trying to point out - your line (and the reasoning) is not very consistent - you raise the flop because you say he's calling so many worse hands, but then you check the turn because he has too many better hands in his range.

      But also turn is a pretty good bluff card anyway, because if he's floating with Ax he's more likely to fold, and also possibly would fold weak overpairs to the 3, underpairs to the kings now too?
      True. However, we're not bluffing vs Ax as we're ahead of those.

      All in all you should definitely bet the turn, it's for thin value and protection.


      River:

      "Why do you think he has an ace?
      Look at his flop bet-calling-range, try to examine what of this he's checking on the turn and which of the hands he could bet so small on the river."

      Hmm, really here his bet on river after checking turn makes it look like he has an overpair, so is doing it as some kind of weird bluff/block bet.
      Ok, he has some Ax in his range, but we said that his flopcallingrange is very wide. Since we checked the turn this doesn't change and additional to that he's aggro, so he can bet most of his range.

      But: He hadn't shown any aggression throughout the hand, and to suddenly donk out with any bet made me think he had an ace here. And since he is a station anyway, he may call with underpair or an ace, both which I beat, so I can get value?
      Don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree with the raise, I just wanted to point out that your perception of his range might be a little off as in my opinion you gave him too strong of a range.
      He plays 67/24 with 1.6 AF, so he can have all kinds of stuff.
    • Jim4rdo
      Jim4rdo
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2010 Posts: 1,252
      Thanks for the feedback on this hand :)

      I think that's my problem, I think correctly a lot of the time, but then I mix it up with other things too, and so because of it make the wrong moves.

      Just need to be more consistent :) Especially for example saying raising flop for value against his worse hands/floats but checking turn, because if I'm still thinking logically I'm ahead for the exact reason I raised the flop.

      Thanks again!