I'm seriously considering to quit poker

    • blackops888
      blackops888
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 502
      I can't stand it no more. After a 40BI downswing, I don't know what to do anymore to get back on track.

      I'm tired of hearing the same again and again... the fact is that I have read over 12 books in the course of one year, watched 150+ videos here and in other places, sat on the computer playing for hours a day and then... nothing happens.

      In the last 2 months no matter what I do, no matter what I have, I cannot win. I lose 5 days straight, win 3BI after this, and lose again. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE.

      Whenever I fop a decent hand I either don't get paid or get outdrawn by some sucker. I'm getting emotionally destroyed every time I play... I even fear starting to play because ah... I don't know.

      Maybe I'm wasting my time with this game. In complete disregard of my knowledge, I cannot manage to get back on track. I know, I know... "but are you applying this knowledge correctly?", once may ask. No need to ask, you know why?

      BECAUSE I FUCKING ASK THIS MYSELF EVERY GODAMN DAY WHEN I SIT TO PLAY.

      I play tight, I play cautiously... it doesn't change shit. Maybe I should cash-out what is left and do something different.

      The graph here is for PLO20 and PLO10 SH on ipoker... And I'm going nitty like 20/10 on average...



      Uploaded with ImageShack.us

      Worse than this is that I cannot talk about this with anyone I know. My friends don't understand the game, my girlfriend the same and my family understands it as gambling addiction... so I'm alone in this matter. Giving up is quite sad, but I don't know what to do...
  • 18 replies
    • conall88
      conall88
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 1,715
      a) you are playing PLO and attainable edges are lower

      b) 40BI downswing in SH doesn't sound unusual.

      c) plan of action is most likely to fix your mindset as you are probably tilting at this stage of the downswing.

      d) if you wish to continue, you should drop a stake, and then play a more conservative BRM.
    • blackops888
      blackops888
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 502
      Originally posted by conall88
      a) you are playing PLO and attainable edges are lower

      b) 40BI downswing in SH doesn't sound unusual.

      c) plan of action is most likely to fix your mindset as you are probably tilting at this stage of the downswing.

      d) if you wish to continue, you should drop a stake, and then play a more conservative BRM.
      Well I have 60BI for PLO10...

      I have heard this kind of advice like 300 times already. Don't know why I asked, actually.
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,975
      Hi Blackops888,

      I am really sorry to read about your current distress and run bad. It is always frustrating when you put alot of effort in and things just don't go your way. It always feels that bit better when you have a nice rant like to one above. At least it gets it off your chest in some degree and that can only be helpful.

      At the end of the day, if you are not enjoying the game maybe it is time to take a rest for a while. Be it, a few days/weeks/months/years whatever you think is best.

      Poker can be a cruel, cruel game and sometimes it can get the better of us all. I had plenty of experience in just 3 short years and even busted a few times.

      Each time, I have come back though I have found myself that little bit more defiant and want to improve and better myself.

      It sucks when you don't have anyone close around you to understand your pain. My fiancee tries her best but its a grey area with my parents also.

      You always have us here if you need anything though. We are always willing to lend a hand and try and help you out, help you through your pain in any way possible.

      I sincerely hope things improve and that you make the right decision for you.

      All the very best,


      Gary
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      100% standard for PLO. You've chossen one of the highest varriance games in poker to play.
    • Aruniux
      Aruniux
      Platinum
      Joined: 04.04.2011 Posts: 207
      if you play in pokerstars just go another room because pokerstars are scam site and no +ev here
    • Zhusy
      Zhusy
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2010 Posts: 382
      Man I am a PLO nl10-25 player. Today I am down 17BI on nl15 ongame. Under EV 4BI. I feel sick but this is kinda normal for PLO.

      I had middle set+oe+fd vs fish top set vs nit bottom set + fd and the fish survived?!
      Around 800BB pot on nl15 not so big but I lost 300BB-s and it sux. But hey thats PLO.

      I withdrew a lot of $$ yesterday and now I have the sickest setups ever. Not to mention people hit 1-3 outers every few hands.
    • Zhusy
      Zhusy
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2010 Posts: 382
      Now I called a fish down bcs I knew he has AA and look at the frickin table.


      On Game, $0.15/$0.15 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 8 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      BB: $10.16 (67.7 bb)
      UTG+2: $2.10 (14 bb)
      MP1: $8.95 (59.7 bb)
      MP2: $10.91 (72.7 bb)
      Hero (MP3): $15.86 (105.7 bb)
      CO: $6.36 (42.4 bb)
      BTN: $14.90 (99.3 bb)
      SB: $23.98 (159.9 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 7 9 Q 8
      UTG+2 calls $0.15, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.15, Hero raises to $0.90, CO folds, BTN calls $0.90, SB calls $0.75, BB raises to $4.80, UTG+2 calls $1.95 and is all-in, MP2 folds, Hero calls $3.90, BTN calls $3.90, SB calls $3.90

      Flop: ($21.45) 7 J 9 (5 players, 1 is all-in)
      SB checks, BB bets $5.36 and is all-in, Hero raises to $11.06 and is all-in, BTN calls $10.10, SB folds

      Turn: ($47.01) T (4 players, 3 are all-in)
      River: ($47.01) 6 (4 players, 3 are all-in)

      Results: $47.01 pot ($2.34 rake)
      Final Board: 7 J 9 T 6
      BB showed 7 A 2 A and lost (-$10.16 net)
      UTG+2 showed 3 6 8 3 and won $10.12 ($8.02 net)
      Hero showed 7 9 Q 8 and won $34.55 ($19.65 net)
      BTN showed J J 5 5 and lost (-$14.90 net)
      SB mucked and lost (-$4.80 net)
    • sinsas
      sinsas
      Silver
      Joined: 22.09.2009 Posts: 380
      Originally posted by Aruniux
      if you play in pokerstars just go another room because pokerstars are scam site and no +ev here


      :facepalm:
    • Zhusy
      Zhusy
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2010 Posts: 382
      Originally posted by sinsas
      Originally posted by Aruniux
      if you play in pokerstars just go another room because pokerstars are scam site and no +ev here


      :facepalm:
      I didn't even see that. :facepalm:
    • gekitsios
      gekitsios
      Global
      Joined: 06.12.2009 Posts: 673
      Originally posted by Aruniux
      if you play in pokerstars just go another room because pokerstars are scam site and no +ev here

      lol why you say that?
    • novelsound
      novelsound
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 50
      Nice thread, it reminded me of the last time i was in this position(going broke with no clue how to improve my game seeking external help) a little less than an year ago :)

      It seems you have forgotten that you are made almost entirely of water

      :s_grin:
    • Zhusy
      Zhusy
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2010 Posts: 382
      1minute ago..


      ***** History for hand R5-163835320-652 *****
      Start hand: Wed Aug 03 02:58:04 CEST 2011
      Table: Johannesburg [163835320] (POT_LIMIT OMAHA_HI $0.15/$0.15, Real money)
      User: Zhusy
      Button: seat 10
      Players in round: 6
      Seat 2: akap7777 ($22.97)
      Seat 5: TBH-1986 ($19.84)
      Seat 7: loualoua ($48.42)
      Seat 8: Zhusy ($28.05)
      Seat 9: LaMich31 ($9.84)
      Seat 10: GDJohn ($15.36)
      akap7777 posts big blind ($0.15)
      TBH-1986 posts big blind ($0.15)
      ---
      Dealing pocket cards
      Dealing to Zhusy: [3c, Ad, 9c, Ac]
      loualoua calls $0.15
      Zhusy calls $0.15
      LaMich31 calls $0.15
      GDJohn calls $0.15
      akap7777 checks
      TBH-1986 checks
      --- Dealing flop [Td, As, 4h]
      akap7777 checks
      TBH-1986 checks
      loualoua bets $0.90
      Zhusy raises $2.25 to $2.25
      LaMich31 raises $8.55 to $8.55
      GDJohn folds
      akap7777 calls $8.55
      TBH-1986 folds
      loualoua calls $7.65
      Zhusy raises $25.65 to $27.90 [all in]
      LaMich31 calls $1.14 [all in]
      akap7777 calls $14.27 [all in]
      loualoua calls $19.35
      --- Dealing turn [2d]
      --- Dealing river [Ts]
      ---
      Summary:
      Main pot: $39.66 won by LaMich31 ($37.68)
      Side pot 1: $39.39 won by Zhusy ($38.37)
      Side pot 2: $10.16 won by Zhusy ($10.16)
      Rake taken: $3
      Seat 2: akap7777 ($0), net: -$22.97, [Qs, 3h, Jh, Ah] (TWO_PAIR ACE, TEN)
      Seat 5: TBH-1986 ($19.69), net: -$0.15
      Seat 7: loualoua ($20.37), net: -$28.05, [7s, 4c, 7c, 4d] (FULL_HOUSE FOUR, TEN)
      Seat 8: Zhusy ($48.53), net: +$20.48, [3c, Ad, 9c, Ac] (FULL_HOUSE ACE, TEN)
      Seat 9: LaMich31 ($37.68), net: +$27.84, [3s, Qd, Th, Tc] (FOUR_OF_A_KIND TEN)
      Seat 10: GDJohn ($15.21), net: -$0.15
      ***** End of hand R5-163835320-652 *****
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Hey blackops888

      So, you know the deal, PLO variance, breaks are good, long term, etc, so essentially there's not much we can tell you that you don't already know. The hard bit, and the bit that makes the difference, is understanding what this means.

      I've been through monster rage withdraw BR tilt more than a few times over the years, and it's never a good feeling. The place you need to get to is where you don't care about results. It's one thing to say this, but what does this mean? Well, for me, it means:

      - only periodically checking your BR for BRM reasons.. so once every few days, or if you've had what feels like a brutal session and you're worried you'll need to move down. This takes a lot of control and isn't easy.

      - KNOWING that the basis to long term positive results, is studying as you have been, and KNOWING that the effort in studying and review has nothing to do with how you're running.

      - take pleasure from playing correctly, and take note of errors you make. This means if the f'ing donk makes a stupid bluff/call with 15% equity you need to enjoy that moment, you "win" in this situation irrespective of the result.

      This is what I try to do anyway. Make good decisions, suck up the (sometimes relentless) beats and coolers, try to enjoy playing the game and trying to really, properly, understand what it is I'm trying to achieve with any given hand/action/board.

      Dunno if this helps, but many good, successful players have had to deal with these emotions, and continuously need to deal with them.

      Best of luck whatever the outcome!

      BTW +1 to the advice for a break too. As a poker addict, I find that after a few days away I start itching for a session, and enjoy them much more too.
    • Zhusy
      Zhusy
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2010 Posts: 382
      Cant agree more on the post above.
    • brobz
      brobz
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 569
      Most of everything has been already said, but why not choose a different variant?

      Try some FL Holdem or NL for 2 weeks straight and come back and let us know your results

      hang in their, poker is a rewarding game but damn it can be a bitch sometimes
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,307
      from original post
      I play tight, I play cautiously... it doesn't change shit. Maybe I should cash-out what is left and do something different.
      Tight is good -- as long as you mean playing quality hands.
      But you must play them aggressively.

      Although the above applies to all poker, it ESPECIALLY applies to PLO

      Illegitimus non carborundum
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Like everyone told you and you know your self variance can be a bitch sometimes, especially in PLO -50BI under EV swings are pretty standard.

      Like you sad it yourself you start the session in fear of the same shit happening all over again and you just can't play with that kind of mindset. You have to take a break at that point. If your semi-tilted before you start a session you definintly wont play your A game and the first bad beat, coller or failed bluff is going to put you on monkey tilt again.

      Imo mindset issues is the main reason so many people can't make it in poker. You can be a winning player if play your A game but once your on tilt you could actually be a big loser. And in todays games very high winrates are not possible anymore. You can be pretty happy with a 5bb winrate, but if you tilt away 5 stacks every 10k hands your whole winrate goes out the window.

      So just take a break untill you really feel like playing again. Personally if i don't play for a week or so i can't wait to get back to the tables and at that point im really playing my A game more so then when i grind everyday.
    • blackops888
      blackops888
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.04.2010 Posts: 502
      Well guys I wasn't expecting such a long series of answers on this post! I feel like a loser when talking about fail, but anyway... :s_biggrin:

      So here we got a blog now! I'm decided to get back on track and this being so I'm writing a blog that will register the battle as I improve:

      Operation Phoenix Rising [Back from the abyss of a 40BI PLO downswing]


      Don't forget to read it! HOT CHICKS INSIDE! (aka nasty/emotional marketing)