Playing AA and KK Preflop SnG Early in Tournament

    • tHINGfISH
      Joined: 21.10.2007 Posts: 204
      I have been playing $10+$1 SnG's and the majority of the players there are terrible. Especially the Turbo SnG's. I've been trying this new method of playing AA and KK.

      All in Preflop automatically.

      So far, about 30% of the time, I've had no action. Which is perfectly fine.

      70% of the times, I've been called down. This causes curiousity for most people at this limit. I only do it because I don't want to raise and lose so early in the tournament as I know as long as I am able to get to top 5 that my chances of making money is so high that I don't want to gamble early.

      Only 1 time have I been called when going all in with KK that the other person had AA.

      Most of the other times, it's been AJ/AQ/AK/A10/A8/A9/KQ/KJ and QQ/JJ/10s/9s/8s and even one time 92suited. LOL.

      Unfortunately, I've lost probably 30-40% of these hands because of being outdrawn. Like first hand KK going all in, and KJ calling to flop JJ. Or first hand KK being called down by AJ to flop an A.

      This only applies to $5+$0.50/$10+1 as I do not know what the levels are of higher limit players... Apparently $16's are pretty much the same...

  • 8 replies
    • helemaalnicks
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      yeah, I was just thinking about that. This regular seems to agree with you:

      PokerStars Game :, $25+$2 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/02/19 - 11:12:02 (ET)

      BU (1500 in chips)
      SB (1500 in chips)
      HERO(BB) (1500 in chips)
      UTG+1 (1500 in chips)
      UTG+2 (1500 in chips)
      MP1 (1500 in chips)
      MP2 (1500 in chips)
      MP3 (1500 in chips)
      CO (1500 in chips)

      *** HOLE CARDS ***
      Dealt to HERO [T 4]
      UTG+1: folds
      UTG+2: raises 80 to 100
      2 folds
      MP3: raises 1400 to 1500 and is all-in
      4 folds
      donkament: calls 1400 and is all-in
      *** FLOP *** [2 5 8]
      *** TURN *** [2 5 8] [A]
      *** RIVER *** [2 5 8 A] [J]
      *** SHOW DOWN ***
      donkey: shows [J A] (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
      MP3: shows [A A] (three of a kind, Aces)
      regular collected 3030 from pot
    • ManniXXX
      Joined: 05.09.2007 Posts: 707
      I know your frustration. I've lost count of the times I raise 3x BB with AA UTG and donkey BB calls me with ATC and makes 2pair. Then theres the breed that will chase a flush draw all the way to the river with no odds, and when they finally get there your pot odds are far too good to lay down the overpair.

      All in all though I wouldn't move all in straight away, it pretty much gives your hand away to any half decent player. I've started to be weary of people who call a 3x BB raise and I'm more eager to lay it down post-flop especially seeing as how I've invested less in the pot than usual. It's usually not a problem when you play from late position because the limpers mean you raise more and then have more FE but from early it becomes a bit more dangerous. What do people think of raising a bit more than the standard 3x BB from early position?
    • Prabhatallin
      Joined: 09.12.2007 Posts: 532
      "I've lost probably 30-40% of these hands because of being outdrawn".
      That isn't so unlikely the chance of a pair beating one over and under is not more than 70% to my knowledge...of course throw in the rags and that is probably slightly unfortunate but not terribly so.

      Otherwise i think its an interesting approach. You stand to make a large payoff by this strat. Against donks its actually better than standard play IMO. The reason not to all-in preflop is that the only people calling are big pairs thats not true in Donksville so all-in is quite fine here.
    • Prabhatallin
      Joined: 09.12.2007 Posts: 532
      Manni that extra raise is IMO good because while you wont completely eliminate action in donkey games.. you will narrow the field considerably...which will make your post-flop play easier. There's no point having 6 or 7 limpers, almost certainly some will catch the flop,you wont know what the donkey has and you will have to bet all your chips to find out...

      I wonder if someone can unearth stats to see what the calling range for preflop all-ins is in these games, it might make sense to actually go all-in depending on the answer after doing the math
    • sw0ldo
      Joined: 31.07.2007 Posts: 397
      You will lose equity in the long run going AI automatically. Just try to isolate 1 limper and enjoy your 4:1 advantage.
    • tHINGfISH
      Joined: 21.10.2007 Posts: 204
      The only problem I have with isolating with KK is that if I raise it to 300 chips, with blinds 10-20, donkeys at the $11 SnG's will call with Ax and any Pocket Pairs.

      If I raise $600 preflop, you're almost committing yourself to the board that early that you're almost pot committed that even if an A flops, you almost have to go all in after you cont bet.

      Maybe it's different at the higher levels. But as the example Helemalniiks shows above, maybe it's not. Donkeys are all over the place! :)

      Funny thing is.. I've done this probably 30 times already, and managed to get calls about 25 times at the $11 SnG's.

      If there is a raise before me, I just go all in with both AA or KK and 70% of the time there is a call. Maybe it's just that people are curious and assume you have low pocket pairs, or AK at most for making a play like that so early. And it's also an easy way to double up against AK/AQ/AJ/pocket pairs.

      I'll keep a record of how many times I do it, and how many times it works. Of course I cannot say anything about $27 SnG's! :) Not yet anyway.
    • roshe40
      Joined: 07.03.2008 Posts: 42
      I lost with AA twice and KK once early in 3 straight SNGs last night alone! It seems as if risking your tournament equity too early on makes it not desirable to play a big pot with these hands. I am tempted to start limping with them early on in order maintain some degree of pot control and be willing to muck them if they don't improve in a multiway pot, or at the very least take one stab at the pot if nobody else shows any interest in it. Otherwise, they tend to become trap hands if you get to far out ahead of your hand in the betting.
    • chenny8888
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      you don't neeeeed to contibet with KK into an ace flop multiway