totally stupid question - 3 bet stats and range

    • hackbinder
      hackbinder
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 618
      I can't believe it took me this long to figure out I was confused...

      When looking at someones stats, say they are...

      30 VPIP
      20 PFR
      10 3bet

      Does the 10 3bet stat mean...

      - he/she 3 bets 10 percent out of all hands played
      - he/she 3 bets 10 percent out of all hands where he is facing a PFR

      So, when trying to get a range, does a 10 3bet stat mean...

      - top 10% of all hands
      - top 10% of his 20% PFR... therefore... top 2%

      I am confused...

      I wont even begin to tell about my confusion about 4 bet stats!

      Please help!
  • 11 replies
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      It means top 10% of all hands.

      4-bet stat means the frequency of how many times he forbets, eq 10% his 4 betting 1 out of 10 times his being 3bet.

      4-bet range is lower like 1.2-3% which is the range of hands his 4betting.

      As a general note you shouldn't look at 4-bet stat unless you have at least 2k hands on your opponent since it takes a while to get a 4-bet sample.

      Hope that clears it up.
    • hackbinder
      hackbinder
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 618
      very kind... thanks!
    • bennisboy
      bennisboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2011 Posts: 711
      The 3-bet % is how many times he 3-bets the pfr, i.e. what percentage pf times that a 3-bet is possible, that the villain actually 3-bets.

      When I saw this thread, and started thinking about it, it totally confused my thinking about range! ha
    • roopopper
      roopopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      While we are on the subject of 3 bet stats, how many hands on villian do you guys like to have before using these stats in your game? I tend to start using them once its up to around 50 hands but I know this is really too small a sample to be accurate.

      Roo
    • patszerdonk
      patszerdonk
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2011 Posts: 834
      Can I borrow this thread?

      How about fold 3bet (preflop)?
      For example:

      NLHE Short Handed.
      UTG raise, MP fold, CO 3bet, BU fold, SB fold, BB fold, UTG fold.

      I know that UTG "fold to 3bet" stat change now (i.e. +). But how about BU, SB, and BB?
    • hackbinder
      hackbinder
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 618
      that is a good question patszerdonk...
    • andreimgs
      andreimgs
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 78
      Originally posted by hackbinder
      I can't believe it took me this long to figure out I was confused...

      When looking at someones stats, say they are...

      30 VPIP
      20 PFR
      10 3bet

      Does the 10 3bet stat mean...

      - he/she 3 bets 10 percent out of all hands played
      - he/she 3 bets 10 percent out of all hands where he is facing a PFR

      Please help!
      It means that he's 3-betting with 10 percent of all hands. You should see also from what positions he does that, it is important.
    • andreimgs
      andreimgs
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.02.2009 Posts: 78
      Originally posted by hackbinder

      So, when trying to get a range, does a 10 3bet stat mean...

      - top 10% of all hands
      - top 10% of his 20% PFR... therefore... top 2%

      Please help!
      10% 3 bet doesn't means that he makes 3bets with top 10% of the cards that he plays, if he is a good player he will have a balanced range and he could make this move with both monsters like AA KK and AKs but also 57s 86s etc
    • conall88
      conall88
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 1,715
      most good players will be using composite 3bet ranges against other regulars.
    • hackbinder
      hackbinder
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.05.2009 Posts: 618
      most good players will be using composite 3bet ranges against other regulars.


      what do you mean by "composite ranges"?
    • bennisboy
      bennisboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2011 Posts: 711
      Originally posted by hackbinder
      most good players will be using composite 3bet ranges against other regulars.


      what do you mean by "composite ranges"?
      Composite usually means it's made up of more than one material to strengthen it, so I'd guess it means not just 3-betting the top of your range, or specific hands parts of the range, because this could be exploited. So I think it means you would want to be dynamic with the hands and range you 3-bet so there is no set pattern to it that can be exploited, like "oh he's 3-bet, he only does this with AA, KK or 67s"