HUDs: Useless for SnGs?

  • 18 replies
    • BOBOsvk
      BOBOsvk
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 2,505
      don't agree
    • Yoshimitsu77
      Yoshimitsu77
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2010 Posts: 337
      Originally posted by BOBOsvk
      don't agree
      quoted for emphasis
    • AGTpunx
      AGTpunx
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2010 Posts: 94
      I disagree but oddly enough my ROI has decreased since using HUDs.
      Guess I dont know how to use them...
    • revs90
      revs90
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 60
      Fair enough. How do you guys use it then? In pretty much every discussion on HUDs I've seen they put lots on emphasis that you can't know at all for sure if the %s shown really represent the true style of playing of your opponents, even with 1k+ hands. Not to mention 50!

      Btw, I'm talking about using it against opponents you've never played against before. Of course, you sometimes bump into the same people from time to time, but it doesn't always happen.

      I disagree but oddly enough my ROI has decreased since using HUDs.

      Same haha. I give too much importance to it. Tried to stop using it for a while and see how things go.
    • matel17
      matel17
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.07.2010 Posts: 1,278
      I don't think it's absolutely necessary at the micros if you can observe your opponents well.

      I think playing styles sometimes can vary, one player can be tight today and go looser tomorrow. He can also develop new leaks, or plug old ones, or both so the older stats will hinder your reads not help them. I think you just need to observe the players at that moment you're playing them.

      just my opinion..
    • freebsdfag
      freebsdfag
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.03.2011 Posts: 12
      Well... It's true that you can't say this or that with much certainty...but.. When you're multitabling and therefore unable to observe every hand at every table, you can rely on your HUD to give you some quite imperfect information that can alter your decision in a particular hand..

      I realize you probably can't relate to this. Think of it as going on a subway and finding a person you then observe.. and using the small clues/behaviorism to say something about that person, that MIGHT be true...

      /end rant
    • revs90
      revs90
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 60
      Originally posted by freebsdfag
      I realize you probably can't relate to this. Think of it as going on a subway and finding a person you then observe.. and using the small clues/behaviorism to say something about that person, that MIGHT be true...

      /end rant
      Well honestly I don't usually stalk people near me while waiting for my bus or w/e xD
      But yeah I get it, I just wonder if it makes that much a difference. Most of the time it just messes with my previous statements about somebody.
      E.G. I see somebody fold 15 hands straight, then first hand he 3bets me off JJ and goes to showdown with 76s.... >_<


      I don't think it's absolutely necessary at the micros if you can observe your opponents well. I think playing styles sometimes can vary, one player can be tight today and go looser tomorrow. He can also develop new leaks, or plug old ones, or both so the older stats will hinder your reads not help them. I think you just need to observe the players at that moment you're playing them. just my opinion..

      ...Yeah, I don't think this is really an argument since most of the players you play against in tournaments are completely unknown to your HUD. At least when playing the micro stakes.


      Oh I forgot. =P I should probably have said that I'm currently single-tabling.
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 5,877
      Obviously it will take long time to get decent sample size on any opponent when you are playing micro (huge player field) and 1 tabling. HUD will give you some additional data, but when sample size is small you should not care of it that much. But even ~100 hands or even smaller amount will often give away opponents general play style. When vpip/pfr is 10/9, 20/2, 30/25 or 60/15 will already tell quite much from villain's approach to the game. Important part is to use filters so that you get data of current SNG situation. If villain has been tight in 9 handed game it does not necessarily mean he would be even closely as tight in 5 handed.

      When there is big sample size(history) with some villain it might create situations where villain is going to play very differently versus you from his default line. Not that likely in micros. That is point where it is good idea to start making notes, if you have not already :)

      So my advice would be to use HUD data only as hint so don't do any hero calls or folds just because of small sample size data...

      When playing just one/few tables you have lot of time to follow your opponents. So learn to make notes of how they play. Those might give very convenient info for future hands.
    • Schris7
      Schris7
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2007 Posts: 730
      well as a sng player for some time now i have to say i cant play without hud.Allthough in micros rarerly u will face the same opponent and if u do that means his either bad cause he is still playing micro limit or he is just grinding so u wont see him for much more cause he will move up. But u dont really need big sample to understand if someone in 20 hands has played 80/0 that he is a fish :D .So an overall opinion hud in micros is not so important but in mid + stakes u will face the same opponents most of the time ,and u need hud to have as much info as u can to gain the slightest advantage and increace your edge as tiny as that increase is.
    • madison79
      madison79
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2011 Posts: 63
      How do I use my HUD at micros?

      First off: I love having the open limps stat in my HUD since i can see if a person ever open limps and what position they do it from.

      If reg open limps and has high aggro factor I know it's AA or KK but if a fish limps from the button and has low aggro factor.

      Also, SB vs BB steal is another great HUD item since it's always nice to know who keeps shoving my blind so I can call liter if need be.

      Reason to use the HUD is so you can play more tables. From Jackals book "sngs are a volume game". You can't play 50k sngs a year 4 tabling it or would you want to?

      As far as not seeing opp's much: Yeah, you don't seem them too much but a HUD will bring focus to regs pretty fast. Avoiding them is key to increase ROI in low/micro stakes. Not they are :s_cool: but still any winning player in the game lowers ur chances.

      Help? Cheers
    • matel17
      matel17
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.07.2010 Posts: 1,278
      Originally posted by madison79
      Reason to use the HUD is so you can play more tables. From Jackals book "sngs are a volume game". You can't play 50k sngs a year 4 tabling it or would you want to?
      What book is that?
    • Gerovit
      Gerovit
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.01.2011 Posts: 1,308
      Originally posted by matel17
      Originally posted by madison79
      Reason to use the HUD is so you can play more tables. From Jackals book "sngs are a volume game". You can't play 50k sngs a year 4 tabling it or would you want to?
      What book is that?
      Yeah i couldnt find it, you meant Jackal69 cr coach?
    • BigOVERBET
      BigOVERBET
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.11.2010 Posts: 433
      huds never useless...i hope they invent one for live games:D
    • DailyDollarPro
      DailyDollarPro
      Silver
      Joined: 11.07.2011 Posts: 145
      The main HUD feature I find helpfull in SnG & MTT is the stack size in BB stat. A lot of your decisions should be based on effective stack size and this stat makes things so much easyer :)
    • lessthanthreee
      lessthanthreee
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.06.2009 Posts: 16,300
      very useful. some stats you dont need a large sample to get a rough idea of how someone plays. obviously you shouldnt look at things like WTSD, turn c/r FQ etc...

      but the basic VPIP/PFR/3b/steal/AFQ are all very useful even in small samples.
    • purplefizz
      purplefizz
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2008 Posts: 4,508
      Originally posted by DailyDollarPro
      The main HUD feature I find helpfull in SnG & MTT is the stack size in BB stat. A lot of your decisions should be based on effective stack size and this stat makes things so much easyer :)
      where can i find this please? :)
    • moose24
      moose24
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.07.2011 Posts: 2
      Hi, thought i would post this to this thread because you guys seem to have an experience with what i want to do. I've just downloaded elephant and the HUD doesn't work for SnG's n MTT's it's great for ring games but when i play a tourney it just says 'stats will be displayed when you have played enough hands'. Played about 60 hands at my current table and it is still not working. Can anyone help it would be much appreciated :) thanks. Tom
    • revs90
      revs90
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 60
      Originally posted by lessthanthreee
      very useful. some stats you dont need a large sample to get a rough idea of how someone plays. obviously you shouldnt look at things like WTSD, turn c/r FQ etc...

      but the basic VPIP/PFR/3b/steal/AFQ are all very useful even in small samples.
      Yeah, those are pretty much the only stats I pay attention to. VPIP/PFR. Don't look at the rest too much, will definetely try to watch out for the 3b & steal though.

      Anyways, thanks for the helpful replies guys. I didn't know there was a #BB's feature in HEM, that sure's gotta be useful :O !

      And sorry Tom, can't help ya, had enough troubles with elephant myself. :p