[NL2-NL10] NL5 QQ vs big donkbet on river

    • PewPewPoker
      PewPewPoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.08.2011 Posts: 106
      Hello everybody!

      I just wanted to post a hand from my last session. I think it's well played, but I'd like to hear your thought on it as well, because I may be overlooking something obvious :P

      The question of course is: fold or call the river.
      Villain has made some pretty unusual moves before, like checkraising a flop while having the initiative several times, and I know he flatcalls his kings preflop.

      So what do you think?

      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      MP3:
      $7,24
      Hero:
      $7,27

      0,03/0,05 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy.com Elephant 0.103 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BU with Q:spade: , Q:diamond:
      MP3 calls $0,05, CO folds, Hero raises to $0,23, 2 folds, MP3 calls $0,18.

      Flop: ($0,54) T:spade: , T:club: , 9:diamond: (2 players)
      MP3 checks, Hero bets $0,35, MP3 calls $0,35.

      Turn: ($1,24) 4:diamond: (2 players)
      MP3 checks, Hero bets $0,6, MP3 calls $0,60.

      River: ($2,44) 5:diamond: (2 players)
      MP3 bets $2,44, Hero folds, MP3 gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $2,44
  • 8 replies
    • BigOVERBET
      BigOVERBET
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.11.2010 Posts: 433
      what hes repping there? thats a standard call
    • matovicmilos
      matovicmilos
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.09.2007 Posts: 115
      Think i would fold as well hes not very aggressive and looks like a value line, especialy because u have shown some strength with 2 bets. Think he often has a 10 or flush considering the bet size, i dont think a passive player would bet so much with a pair type hand (unless aa or kk maybe)
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Unless you have reads that he can bluff often or value bet a weaker range in this spot - unlikely most times this limit - then it's a fold. I rarely like calling here.
    • nathanrenard
      nathanrenard
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 816
      I think it is a standard call. If he actually rivered a flush (doubt it) or has a ten (cooler). I've seen villains do that move with all kind of hands, usuall pairs 66-JJ.

      My usual opinion? Busted straight draw. Maybe some timing tells could've helped over there.

      Now my point being is about your turn play, that for me is bad. First you go ahead and bet around 65% on the flop. Then turn gets even more drawy adding a diamond and you bet less than half the pot?

      I think your bet sizing didn't make sense. Pretty exploitable on that river 'cause you have shown pretty much like:

      - Oh ok, i rly dont want to lose more money here. So please don't re-raise me?

      Evaluate one thing on this hand, had villain check-raise you on the turn, what would you have done? Because honestly? River card is a blank even though it is a diamond.
    • matovicmilos
      matovicmilos
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.09.2007 Posts: 115
      its the bet sizing on the river, when a passive fish bets pot on the river just fold unless u got nuts, im positive that he is no weaker then 10 there seen it many times with that type of player. And i dont think he would take that line with a pair he would go for c/c. eventualy could be missed str8 draw but more likely strong made hand.
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,297
      Originally posted by matovicmilos
      its the bet sizing on the river, when a passive fish bets pot on the river just fold unless u got nuts, im positive that he is no weaker then 10 there seen it many times with that type of player. And i dont think he would take that line with a pair he would go for c/c. eventualy could be missed str8 draw but more likely strong made hand.
      I agree with this. I agree he won't do this with a pair so it seems everyone in this thread agrees on one thing; he is polarised. The question is whether his range is weighted toward busted draws or tens + backdoor flush.

      Generally when a fish does this I would assume it is a value line unless they have a history of donk bluffing their busted draws on the river. This looks like a "slowplay" line with a T. (PewPewPoker's read that he flats KK pf suggests he might be the slowplaying type). However in this river spot many fish don't have the discipline to continue their slowplay (to let you fire with air or value-own yourself) because they are too scared of a check-check, so they donk for value.

      It is also possible he has anything like JQ:diamond: JK:diamond: 78:diamond: 68:diamond: Q8:diamond: J7:diamond: and backed into the flush.

      Yes, there are busted straights in his range.....assuming he can donk bluff these (which some players never will), calling isn't ridiculous.

      Personally I would assume the fishes range here is value-heavy and make the fold.
    • purplefizz
      purplefizz
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2008 Posts: 4,508
      just moving to the correct forum as i said in my other message ;)

      smiles,
      wendy
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello PewPewPoker,

      Whatever he is representing there I am not Calling this. Just look at this guy stats. He is rather loose-passive player who has been winning most of the showdowns. I don't like the Call either on river, most likely would fold it without any good reason to make the hero-call vs a bluff only. After we did show strength on 2 streets I rarely doubt that he is turning crazy here with pure bluff.

      Best regards.