Video discussion about Phil Ivey raise and call on the flop.

    • Zhusy
      Zhusy
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2010 Posts: 382
      Okay, this question was discussed by me and few phenomenal poker players I know in real life.


      Is this a bad raise and call by Mr.NR1_Phil_Ivey?

      Why I ask this question? My question is not if this is a good play in the long run.

      I wanted to point out a miss-step from the best poker player in the world. I mean he could/should fold that. Maybe he had some tell on Mercier? But why then that dumb comment "You probably got me" which tells me he was convinced he was beaten. But why the call then? I mean he had to give 110k for a pot of 400k yeah but still he only committed 100k. Why give 100k more?

      Obviously Jason Mercier was telling a great story, in my opinion he was making a brilliant play, was playing pretty solid/TAGish the whole night, like most of them did.

      And then this hand came, he played it from the beginning like JJ+, saw the huge raise from Ivey and he still stick to his JJ+ play.

      I would like to see few comments about this hand. As a live poker player I would like to see if anyone can change my opinion on this pretty doubtful play.



      Just hit the link and the video will start from the hand the question is about. [27mins:55secs]

      LINK




      I am sorry if this hand was already discussed but I couldn't find it anywhere.
  • 10 replies
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Obv it would be incorrect for any of us to assume we understand Ivey's logic.

      If he does decide to raise on the flop against a player such as Mercier he has to be prepared to get it all in as we all know Mercier is known to "spew" or be very aggro.

      I'm sure Ivey has encoutered dozens of online whizkids who think they can come into the live arena and try to "outplay him".

      When he raises flop he has to go with it otherwise he would just call and let Mercier barrel or maybe fold one.

      Jason's jam is quite nice because of his tight image and Ivey probably thinkjs he is going to abit scared money so clickign back the flop will get lots of sigh folds, also Ivey is really not repping much and even if he does call we haz a gutsot and bdfd :)
    • gsergiul
      gsergiul
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.11.2010 Posts: 234
      He's not that big of a "long run thinker" because he goes with his reads and his reads are right most of the time so maybe against some people it isn't profitable in the long run but here I doubt mercier would play overpairs like that against ivey he really can't expect to be paid off so those hands are basically out of the question.
    • Zhusy
      Zhusy
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2010 Posts: 382
      I understand the plays itself. I don't need clearance on that part.

      I don't understand Ivey.
      He is also human, and I think this is a miss step from him?

      Or is there something he knows? I mean obviously there is! Thats why I post it here. I want as many as possible explanations so I could put up a picture about it.

      As a LIVE player I am improving myself and this hand I find particularly interesting.
    • Zhusy
      Zhusy
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2010 Posts: 382
      Originally posted by gsergiul
      He's not that big of a "long run thinker" because he goes with his reads and his reads are right most of the time so maybe against some people it isn't profitable in the long run but here I doubt mercier would play overpairs like that against ivey he really can't expect to be paid off so those hands are basically out of the question.
      He wouldn't play over pairs like that? Your logic makes no sense to me. Actually it has no sense. Mercier made a brilliant play.

      And you say his read? He made a "sigh you got me" which shows me he had a read that he is BEAT and still he calls. Again your comment makes no sense to me.

      this is a LIVE game and you can't compare it in any way with an online cash game.

      Please guys more opinions. Lets solve this :D
    • gsergiul
      gsergiul
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.11.2010 Posts: 234
      Originally posted by Zhusy
      Originally posted by gsergiul
      He's not that big of a "long run thinker" because he goes with his reads and his reads are right most of the time so maybe against some people it isn't profitable in the long run but here I doubt mercier would play overpairs like that against ivey he really can't expect to be paid off so those hands are basically out of the question.
      Mercier made a brilliant play.

      I tend to disagree, what's he expecting to fold out there except bluffs with his all in?
    • Saruniks
      Saruniks
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2010 Posts: 1,213
      that's the strategy I use a lot,

      It's called Call and Pray. You can google it.
    • Zhusy
      Zhusy
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2010 Posts: 382
      Originally posted by gsergiul
      Originally posted by Zhusy
      Originally posted by gsergiul
      He's not that big of a "long run thinker" because he goes with his reads and his reads are right most of the time so maybe against some people it isn't profitable in the long run but here I doubt mercier would play overpairs like that against ivey he really can't expect to be paid off so those hands are basically out of the question.
      Mercier made a brilliant play.

      I tend to disagree, what's he expecting to fold out there except bluffs with his all in?

      99 is only a bluff catcher in that spot isn't it?
    • jmackenzie
      jmackenzie
      Silver
      Joined: 04.06.2008 Posts: 1,241
      who cares about that hand the 1 after it is like 10x more entertaining
    • Wacko118
      Wacko118
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.06.2009 Posts: 300
      Agreed.
      Pot Dwan vs Ivey afterward is incredibly.... Wow just wow.... How can someone have that much balls to triple barrel that board.
    • ZeMammuth
      ZeMammuth
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 704
      Allow me 2 xplain the hand.

      Ivey limped pre so its very rare for him 2 have a big pair in that spot, so he almost always has some kind of suited connector or small/mid pair.

      When the flop comes 273, ivey c/r because he knows mercier knows that the 273 is a board that will miss a lot of merciers range if he had ak aq ect. So since Mercier knows there is a good chance ivey will c/r that board with air cause he knows it misses his range, Ivey knows there is a good chance mercier will shove over light on that flop.

      So in short, yes ivey knew he would be beat there fairly often, but he also knew that his hand would be good fairly often also given the way the hand played out with the limp pre by ivey and the c/r on that board. So given the money that is in the middle makes it a +ev play from iveys part. Not to add that ivey could of suspected he was bluffing by some sort of tell to make it an easier call.