[NL2-NL10] Top set & flop donk

    • GreenPiece
      GreenPiece
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.06.2010 Posts: 5,962
      PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed)

      Button ($1.57)
      SB ($3.95)
      BB ($3.38)
      UTG ($5.11)
      UTG+1 ($4)
      MP1 ($5.05)
      MP2 ($10.51)
      Hero (MP3) ($1.93)
      CO ($5.05)

      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 10, 10
      4 folds, Hero bets $0.15, 3 folds, BB calls $0.10

      Flop: ($0.32) 10, 9, 7 (2 players)
      BB bets $0.50, Hero raises to $1.78 (All-In), 1 fold

      Total pot: $1.32 | Rake: $0.06

      Hi!

      I'm very new to MSS, just tried to see what it is...

      I have a question. According to basic chart it's bet\raise with my top set. As far as I understood there's no call on the flop, it's only raise or fold. My opponent gets 33% on the flop for the call to be profitable with his FD, monster-draw or something else with equity 33%+ and I actually hoped he would call but after his huge bet he folded... Are there some ways to maximize the profit in this situation?
  • 5 replies
    • viccini
      viccini
      Global
      Joined: 17.02.2011 Posts: 337
      Originally posted by GreenPiece
      PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed)

      Button ($1.57)
      SB ($3.95)
      BB ($3.38)
      UTG ($5.11)
      UTG+1 ($4)
      MP1 ($5.05)
      MP2 ($10.51)
      Hero (MP3) ($1.93)
      CO ($5.05)

      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 10, 10
      4 folds, Hero bets $0.15, 3 folds, BB calls $0.10

      Flop: ($0.32) 10, 9, 7 (2 players)
      BB bets $0.50, Hero raises to $1.78 (All-In), 1 fold

      Total pot: $1.32 | Rake: $0.06

      Hi!

      I'm very new to MSS, just tried to see what it is...

      I have a question. According to basic chart it's bet\raise with my top set. As far as I understood there's no call on the flop, it's only raise or fold. My opponent gets 33% on the flop for the call to be profitable with his FD, monster-draw or something else with equity 33%+ and I actually hoped he would call but after his huge bet he folded... Are there some ways to maximize the profit in this situation?
      I think you always have to push in this situation. The flop is very drawy and you can't let your opponent see the turn without paying more. In a dry board you could just call and let him bet again on the turn whith his hole range.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Heyhello Greenpiece!

      We have Topset on a drawheavy board on the Flop. I agree we should never ever call in this spot.
      Furthermore our opponent overrrbet this board so that means he has shown significant interest in this pot so I would be shoving as well. anything else is basically yielding no profit at all

      Best regards,
      Gerv
    • Harnas31
      Harnas31
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.10.2010 Posts: 76
      I don't agree.

      If it is a good player.
      I would definitly call. I regret that you have so small stack, 5$ would be good in that spot, and I would be willing to go broke with this set on HDB. But if he is good there is no fear that you will go broke. He wouldn't dare to bet big again and you also dont want to overbet it. Just pot control.

      Why ?
      This funny bet is a tell for me. People who have draws dont overbet the pot on HDB, they do donks, but small, blockers.

      I put him on AT, A9, A7. Unfortunately we dont have stats on this player.

      He bets big to be sure that his pair is good on such a scary board for both of you and now you push. I think he puts you on strit or combo and fold.

      And because you have so small stack it's an easy call up to the homebase.
      Another tell - he has full stack,so I assume he is good and knows what to do, so I call no doubts, even with 5$, with your stack it's an easy call with a smile on face.

      What about turn. It would be difficult to get value on turn. Only if he is able to 2 barrel semi-bluff vs smaller stack, and he probably would check, so you bet on turn again and he folds.
      So - you didnt lose much profit actually

      If it's a fish I would have hard time to cal this bet. I would think he is betting for value.
      1). Fish with big stack , I would call 1 bet and praying for help , something like full house. If he bets big again, I am happy to fold.
      2). Fish with smaller stack, like yours I would snap fold.

      It all up to reads on opponents. Observe and destroy.

      And I encourage you to play big stacks, people more respect big stacks and are more honest becasue they know that its easier for you to call them down if they have less than you.
      :spade:
    • Tampaloeres81
      Tampaloeres81
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.03.2009 Posts: 1,416
      Originally posted by Harnas31
      I don't agree.

      If it is a good player.
      I would definitly call. I regret that you have so small stack, 5$ would be good in that spot, and I would be willing to go broke with this set on HDB. But if he is good there is no fear that you will go broke. He wouldn't dare to bet big again and you also dont want to overbet it. Just pot control.

      Why ?
      This funny bet is a tell for me. People who have draws dont overbet the pot on HDB, they do donks, but small, blockers.

      I put him on AT, A9, A7. Unfortunately we dont have stats on this player.

      He bets big to be sure that his pair is good on such a scary board for both of you and now you push. I think he puts you on strit or combo and fold.

      And because you have so small stack it's an easy call up to the homebase.
      Another tell - he has full stack,so I assume he is good and knows what to do, so I call no doubts, even with 5$, with your stack it's an easy call with a smile on face.

      What about turn. It would be difficult to get value on turn. Only if he is able to 2 barrel semi-bluff vs smaller stack, and he probably would check, so you bet on turn again and he folds.
      So - you didnt lose much profit actually

      If it's a fish I would have hard time to cal this bet. I would think he is betting for value.
      1). Fish with big stack , I would call 1 bet and praying for help , something like full house. If he bets big again, I am happy to fold.
      2). Fish with smaller stack, like yours I would snap fold.

      It all up to reads on opponents. Observe and destroy.

      And I encourage you to play big stacks, people more respect big stacks and are more honest becasue they know that its easier for you to call them down if they have less than you.
      :spade:
      lol

      He plays NL5 and overbets on a draw heavy flop => no way a good player :D

      Do you really think about folding top set against fish??????????

      Come on..

      T.
    • sp00nman
      sp00nman
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.01.2009 Posts: 92
      Snap-fold top set? I would shove even if the flop has an obv straight or flush. And 200% of the time against a fish. Calling is never an option here. Lol

      I would only flat an overdonkbet if I have the nuts like quads or top fh.

      I agree with your point on big stacks, but that is exactly what mss/sss players try to exploit. Big stacks are often call-happy against mid/short stackers and that little preflop equity edge are what they grind into profit.


      Originally posted by Tampaloeres81
      Originally posted by Harnas31
      I don't agree.

      If it is a good player.
      I would definitly call. I regret that you have so small stack, 5$ would be good in that spot, and I would be willing to go broke with this set on HDB. But if he is good there is no fear that you will go broke. He wouldn't dare to bet big again and you also dont want to overbet it. Just pot control.

      Why ?
      This funny bet is a tell for me. People who have draws dont overbet the pot on HDB, they do donks, but small, blockers.

      I put him on AT, A9, A7. Unfortunately we dont have stats on this player.

      He bets big to be sure that his pair is good on such a scary board for both of you and now you push. I think he puts you on strit or combo and fold.

      And because you have so small stack it's an easy call up to the homebase.
      Another tell - he has full stack,so I assume he is good and knows what to do, so I call no doubts, even with 5$, with your stack it's an easy call with a smile on face.

      What about turn. It would be difficult to get value on turn. Only if he is able to 2 barrel semi-bluff vs smaller stack, and he probably would check, so you bet on turn again and he folds.
      So - you didnt lose much profit actually

      If it's a fish I would have hard time to cal this bet. I would think he is betting for value.
      1). Fish with big stack , I would call 1 bet and praying for help , something like full house. If he bets big again, I am happy to fold.
      2). Fish with smaller stack, like yours I would snap fold.

      It all up to reads on opponents. Observe and destroy.

      And I encourage you to play big stacks, people more respect big stacks and are more honest becasue they know that its easier for you to call them down if they have less than you.
      :spade:
      lol

      He plays NL5 and overbets on a draw heavy flop => no way a good player :D

      Do you really think about folding top set against fish??????????

      Come on..

      T.