Btn open vs 3bet from the blinds

    • DailyDollarPro
      DailyDollarPro
      Silver
      Joined: 11.07.2011 Posts: 145
      Typical situation:

      Folds to Hero on btn, Hero has A:spade: , Q:heart:

      Hero bets 3bb (vpip from btn = 40%, we are stealing quite often)
      Big blind raises to 10bb (stats = 22/20/7.5 3bt (10% 3bt from BB))

      Option 1: Hero calls 10bb, plays pot in position

      Option 2: Hero raises to 24bb, calls shove.

      Option 3: Hero raises to 24bb, folds to shove.

      Option 4: Hero raises to 100bb and is all in.

      So which action is the better play in this type of spot?

      1) We keep his weaker/dominated hands in his range but we lose initative and will miss the flop often, forcing us to fold to a c-bet.

      2) Villain will likely fold his weaker hands and shove his strong hands. Against his shoving range we are behind in equity but we do win the pot (13.5bb) when he folds.

      3) We are effectively saying our hand is a bluff and risk 21bb to win 13.5bb

      4) We have maximum fold equity, but he will never call with worse.
  • 8 replies
    • MathhNes
      MathhNes
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.08.2009 Posts: 953
      The amount of "live money" that you can possibly pick up is not worth turning such a nice hand into a bluff with. You have two options in spots like these with AQ.

      One is calling villains 3bet (and then you can 4bet 27o instead - more game optimal - since villain usually wont be flatting 4bets anyways).

      And the other one that you should be using against very good and very aggressive players is 4bet/call, if you expect villain to 5bet jam AJ and random bluffs often enough.

      Good luck

      EDIT: Oh and btw, vs that guy you should def call his 3bet :)
    • qwertybochan
      qwertybochan
      Silver
      Joined: 28.03.2010 Posts: 467
      del
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      I always call here. Its a waste of hand to 4-bet with, you can just use any hand with blockers like A6o.

      There are very few players that you can stack off with even in those positions. Even if they 3-bet wide they wont be 5bet shoving light.

      Whose forcing you to fold postflop when you miss?
    • patszerdonk
      patszerdonk
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2011 Posts: 834
      I'm always calling too. But to be honest, I dont know why. We have position, and our range is quite good vs Villain' range (de or polarized). That's all I know.
      But I think the main reason is because I dont like the other options.

      Can someone link to an article on the net which explaining this subject? Or if someone can explained here, that's will be great :D
    • DailyDollarPro
      DailyDollarPro
      Silver
      Joined: 11.07.2011 Posts: 145
      Ok, so the general consensus is to call.

      If we call here with AQ, then we call with a bunch of other hands:

      Call 10bb: A10 - AQ, A2s - AQs, 22 - JJ, 78s - KQs, KJ - KQ

      4bet, call: QQ - AA, AKs, AK

      4bet, fold: A7 - A10

      Do these ranges look right?

      What adjustments do we make vs aggressive villain with a much wider 3bet range?
    • patszerdonk
      patszerdonk
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2011 Posts: 834
      Your calling range looks too wide to me. I prefer:
      Call 10bb: A10 - AQ, 88 - JJ, KJ - KQ
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by patszerdonk
      Your calling range looks too wide to me. I prefer:
      Call 10bb: A10 - AQ, 88 - JJ, KJ - KQ
      This is way to tight. If your only calling that then your folding to his 3-bet 80%+ of the time depending how wide your opening your BU. If you fold that much your getting 3-bet every single time some one with a HUD has a chance to 3-bet you. With FE alone its +EV to 3-bet you.

      I think against a wide 3-betting range while you have position you can easily call ATs+ AJo+ since a lot of his 3-betting range is Ax that he doesnt want to call OOP so you will have him dominated very often.

      Also calling any pair that your not getting it in with is fine as well. Sometimes you hit a set which is great but even when you dont you can float some flops and try to show it down since a lot of players will c-bet and then shut down with their overcards.

      KQo and KJs are also good defence against a wide range, but i wouldn't call any weaker brodways.

      You can also call SC if you think your opponent is bad and you have a post flop edge on him.

      You can also call your value range if you think you have to much FE with a 4-bet.
    • patszerdonk
      patszerdonk
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2011 Posts: 834
      Originally posted by MatejM47
      Originally posted by patszerdonk
      Your calling range looks too wide to me. I prefer:
      Call 10bb: A10 - AQ, 88 - JJ, KJ - KQ
      This is way to tight. If your only calling that then your folding to his 3-bet 80%+ of the time depending how wide your opening your BU. If you fold that much your getting 3-bet every single time some one with a HUD has a chance to 3-bet you. With FE alone its +EV to 3-bet you.

      I think against a wide 3-betting range while you have position you can easily call ATs+ AJo+ since a lot of his 3-betting range is Ax that he doesnt want to call OOP so you will have him dominated very often.

      Also calling any pair that your not getting it in with is fine as well. Sometimes you hit a set which is great but even when you dont you can float some flops and try to show it down since a lot of players will c-bet and then shut down with their overcards.

      KQo and KJs are also good defence against a wide range, but i wouldn't call any weaker brodways.

      You can also call SC if you think your opponent is bad and you have a post flop edge on him.

      You can also call your value range if you think you have to much FE with a 4-bet.
      :)
      Generally, you agree with me