how to play KK on an A high flop

    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      just been reading the article - on the flop: when to play passively.....

      there is an interesting hand:
      Stacks & Stats
      UTG ($25)
      UTG+1 ($25) (16/11/3.3/24/488) [VPIP/PFR/AF/WTS/Hands]
      UTG+2 ($25)
      MP1 ($25)
      MP2 ($25)
      Hero ($25)
      CO ($25) (8/5/1.8/18/371) [VPIP/PFR/AF/WTS/Hands]
      BU ($25) (15/12/2.1/23/800) [VPIP/PFR/AF/WTS/Hands]
      SB ($25)
      BB ($25) (12/9/2.6/21/333) [VPIP/PFR/AF/WTS/Hands]

      Pre-flop: Hero is MP3 with K :spade: , K :heart:
      1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $1.00, 3 folds, Hero raises to $3.25, 4 folds, UTG+1 calls $3.25

      Flop: ($6.85) A :diamond: , 7 :diamond: , 4 :heart: (2 players)
      UTG+1 checks, Hero checks

      it says that we didn't want the UTG TAG to bet out and call our raise and then an ace to fall on the flop. the line is therefore check behind for bluff induce. i guess my 2 questions are
      1) what do we do if UTG donks here? KK is definitely too strong to fold right, but at the same time what the hell is he donking with? so since KK is too strong to fold, we could consider a raise but surely this isolates? similarly if we just call then we face exactly the same situation on the turn unless we hit our 2 outer.

      2) if we are first to act OOP (preflop we raise and are simply called), we obviously cbet but what do we do if we are raised? and what do we do on the turn if we are called?

      this is one of those awkward situations where i find it hard to play simply because hands like KK are so hard to lay down, especially for me as a noob, but this is also problematic since i do not know when it is correct to lay a hand like this down. bet/fold is apparently turning the hand into a bluff but if opponent does raise, then what weaker hand is he raising with? i normally would choose bet/fold with KK, so is this correct?
  • 11 replies
    • marti1988
      marti1988
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.06.2011 Posts: 1,387
      raise/fold ?
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      if you mean raise/fold in response to the first question thats fine, but the only thing we want is for him to fold to our raise and for us to take the pot down with the raise so isn't that a bluff? and if he doesn't fold, what do we do on the turn...

      if you mean raise fold to the second question then surely if we 3bet then we are pretty much pot committed... idk im just curious what people think about how to play it
    • cpers
      cpers
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.04.2011 Posts: 563
      put him on AJ+, TT+.
      b/f. But I think ch is fine since he's the aggressor. maybe b/f or r/f the turn.
    • kiromanAAKK
      kiromanAAKK
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2009 Posts: 4,022
      sorry, can you please post the link to the article?

      TY :)
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      here it is kiroman

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/bss/1575/1/

      it only covers if we are IP and if it is checked to us and i was wondering how to play it if this was not the case since i remember being stuck in these situations before. on the one hand you wan2 get the most out of hands like KK but on the other hand you don't want to overplay...
    • kiromanAAKK
      kiromanAAKK
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2009 Posts: 4,022
      TYVM :)
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Bet/fold to make your life easy and after that your not putting anymore money into the pot and just try to show it down.

      In technical sense your hand is a bluff catcher so it would be correct to check back but then you pretty much turn your hand face up which is never good. If he bets turn and river your pretty much playing a guessing game and he can play perfectly against you.

      Just cuz you had the nuts preflop your hand is pretty much dead once you get called he has an A 90% of the time. Guys on nl25 just don't float A high boards in 3-bet pots often enough for your hand to ever be good once your called.
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      ok thanks.

      Guys on nl25 just don't float A high boards in 3-bet pots often enough for your hand to ever be good once your called.

      i take it that goes for lower limits too?
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by DrDunne
      ok thanks.

      Guys on nl25 just don't float A high boards in 3-bet pots often enough for your hand to ever be good once your called.

      i take it that goes for lower limits too?
      Yeah obviously. Once you 3-bet in this spot people will put you on AK a lot and they will be folding way to much even tho you c-bet this board with 100% of your range.

      But this specific opponent can only have hands like AQ+ and his probably setmining with every PP since his pretty much a nit overall and his UTG range is even tighter and once you 3-bet he folds the weaker part of his range. I really doubt his calling hands like KQs.

      So he has not equity hand that he can float you with anyway, no sc for strait and FD and he cant really float here with JJ or something since he thinks AK is a big part of your range and his pretty much dead against that.
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      ty for the advice MatejM47 - mental note is made :D i need to really work on using all information available while playing.
    • Aerox232
      Aerox232
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2011 Posts: 422
      C-bet flop. And on turn use position. If he bet fold. And if he check use pot control.