18 man sngs on Stars

    • ionasnorbert
      ionasnorbert
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.11.2010 Posts: 407
      Hello! I'm playing 18 man sng's on stars and would like to talk to someone who has some experience in these.
      I am not really sure about the bubble factor in these sngs, I seem to be bubbling a lot because i don't really mind the bubble factor too much. The prize pool is rather top 2 heavy so i try and make it to 2nd or 1st and i might be taking a bit more risks. If anyone is playing these I wouldn't mind a little sweat or some hand evaluation.

      TL;DR I busto 5th a lot and not sure if I should be tighter or looser on the bubble with a medium stack.

      Good luck,
      Norbert
  • 9 replies
    • marisoltan
      marisoltan
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2011 Posts: 28
      Hey me im playing 27man sng's for building bankroll for mtt's
      Well i think you need to depend your stacks if you want to shove with any 2 pre. Just time your shoving so will not bubble too much. Your wasting your chance in the battle of the planets. Return of the buy in is good enough rather than play for an hour gets nothing.
    • thienimon
      thienimon
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.08.2007 Posts: 17
      Here's some tips.

      1. Do not focus getting in-money like 4th. Cause it's just not worth it. Play to win 1st & 2nd. Keep your mindset on it. This will pays off in long term grinding.

      2. Stealing is the key towards the final stage of 18 man. Agressive baby. Play aggressive poker, doesn't mean you become a maniac. Use the formula on next step to help with your decision making.

      3. Use this formula to calculate. Mzone= your stack / sb+bb+(ante*players)
      Pretty much Mzone show you how much more round your stack can last. Just more technical formal. Forsure you might have better way.

      Example
      Mzone = 5<=1 - Push
      Mzone = 10>=5 - Wait for decent hands
      Mzone = 20>=10 Decent stacks
      Mzone = 20< Healthy stacks

      Just some tips, yet simple and it works. :) Hope it help your. Good luck at the table.
    • marisoltan
      marisoltan
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2011 Posts: 28
      let's try to play together later 4 hours from now if you want my ym is [edited by thazar] and my pokerstars username is marisoltan from manila philippines

      maybe we can share tips together
    • marisoltan
      marisoltan
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2011 Posts: 28
      im playing now, 27 man sng's ? are you playing?
    • conall88
      conall88
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 1,715
      use sngwiz to practice proper push/fold ranges for these.
      You are probably throwing away equity by not considering stack sizes enough etc.

      @thienimon

      M zone is very nice, but that information he has provided can EASILY be mis-applied.

      unfortunately the advice he has given you only applies if cev=$ev. at the end of the day this doesn't factor in the bubble and pay jumps etc.

      so, don't dismiss the advice, but make sure its just a consideration.

      My thought process when shoving is something like this:

      - what is my stack size if I shove and win?
      - what is my stack size if I shove and lose?
      - what is my stack size if I fold?
      - who has acted before me? are they limping a lot or folding to raises too much/opening very wide?

      - are there any shorties coming up to the blinds soon?
      -what stack sizes do the blinds have?


      remember your shoving range is based on EFFECTIVE stacks of the people to act ahead of you in the pot, and people already in the pot.

      read the strategy articles for MTT/MTSNGs . there is an article on bubble play which is useful.
    • Bigniux
      Bigniux
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.01.2009 Posts: 2,098
      18mans have super flat payout structure 40/30/20/10. When you're down to 5 people, bubble factors doesn't change(AFAIK) until you get HU, because the payout jumps stay the same(when there are 4 people left, the rest of prize pool is split 30/20/10, 3handed 20/10). That should help a bit :)

      Given what i wrote above, you should be shoving same ranges from same positions, but don't forget that with every person busted, the orbits become shorter -> blinds hit you more often -> you want to shove slightly wider :)
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      Originally posted by marisoltan
      let's try to play together later 4 hours from now if you want my ym is [edited by thazar] and my pokerstars username is marisoltan from manila philippines

      maybe we can share tips together
      I just removed your email address or it gonna get swamped with spam :)

      and moved it to the SNG section where it is probably more appropriate


      Regards

      Thazar
    • ghaleon
      ghaleon
      Black
      Joined: 17.10.2007 Posts: 5,877
      Actually you are more risk averse in bubble of 18man than in bubble of 9man sng.

      Pzhon give pretty good explanation.
    • dangermowse
      dangermowse
      Silver
      Joined: 24.10.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Prize structure is about as far from top heavy as it gets! You should certainly not be going into these games with the incorrect mentality alot of players have "playing for 1st!" I guarantee you will be making gigantic ICM mistakes, especially 4 handed when you're safely ITM thinking everything loosens up a ton now....newsflash, it doesn't.

      You need sng wiz pretty badly to learn these properly.

      As food for thought, here's a little quiz hand, bubble busted, safely ITM.

      Shover is random, our correct calling range should be QQ+ (though I'm never folding JJ, perhaps not TT either). But it just shows you how far wrong you're likely to be.

      Poker Stars $13.89+$1.11 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t200/t400 Blinds + t25 - 4 players

      SB: t12535 M = 17.91
      BB: t3725 M = 5.32
      CO: t5195 M = 7.42
      Hero (BTN): t5545 M = 7.92

      Pre Flop: (t700) Hero is BTN with A :diamond: Q :heart:
      CO raises to t5170 all in, 3 folds