[NL2-NL10] NL 10 tricky spot

  • 11 replies
    • foolboydesire
      foolboydesire
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.10.2010 Posts: 153
      IMO it's important to know his c-bet on flop stats and how well you know this player? does he cbet a lot? cause it's a perfect flop for a cbet, as a PFA I would cbet any two in this spot :D
    • sausage646
      sausage646
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2010 Posts: 567
      He is solid regular probably from pokerstrategys...
      C bet ~65% .
      1. foolboydesire would you ever ever consider folding TT+ on this board against 21/17 guy ?
      2. Do you know any good player who would fold in this situation?
      3. Do you think a guy whit 51/24/3 stats could fold TT+ on this board IF YOU would open pre flop and c bet flop after his check?
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      prefer 3-betting pf, since he would likely call your 3-bet being ip with worse hands. And imo it is easier to play TT+, AQ+ postflop having pf aggression.

      Postflop: I would not c/f that flop, since he would c-bet there close to 100%
      His MP opening range is likely 18%, that you´re strangely flipping:

      board: A22
      Hand Equity Wins Ties
      TT 48.29% 12,738,636 269,784
      18% 51.71% 13,650,300 269,784

      But all his air hands I think he would give up betting out once, so you should get your free showdown quite often. You just has there too often Ax hands that you would not to 2-barrel, so he would not really going to 3-barrel smt like 89
    • sausage646
      sausage646
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2010 Posts: 567
      I had a similar situation , can you help me whit this one Kaitz20 ?

      SB ($14.70)
      BB ($21.36)
      Hero ($10)
      CO ($3)
      BTN ($11.01)

      Dealt to Hero 9 :heart: 9 :diamond:

      Hero raises to $0.40, fold, fold, fold, BB calls $0.30

      FLOP ($0.85) A :diamond: 2 :club: 2 :spade:

      BB checks, Hero bets $0.50, BB calls $0.50

      opponent 51/24/3.1/114

      My friend said ''I would Bet the flop for the reason that sometimes you might even make better hands to fold ''

      is he right ?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello sausage646,

      Preflop: Don't really see why we should 3bet against regular here? We practically just turning our hand into bluff since we ain't gonna play for stacks if he decides to 4bet. I do like the Call actually, even OOP.
      Postflop: With your stats I don't think that I'd continue. His range is towards Ax hands anyways also it will be pretty hard for us to float it here. Only idea of playing back against him would be in this case to Check/Call the flop and donk the turn. Since we can't represent much with Check/Raise.

      Wouldn't say I am your friend but if you take me as a friend then sure why not. Friend for me is still who I at least know face to face. :>

      And please give the full sentence not just make fold better hands but as well protect your hand from overcards and avoid him taking stabs into you and you wont know where you stand with your hand on turn. ;)

      Best regards.
    • sausage646
      sausage646
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2010 Posts: 567
      I can't understand how can you so easy give up on this board there is 1 over card and opponent who is c betting 100% on this kind of board.

      I did post the part where I did disagree whit you. "That 51/24 is not folding to c bet TT+ ever" and why should he.

      " With your stats I don't think that I'd continue. His range is towards Ax hands anyways also it will be pretty hard for us to float it here. "

      So what YOU are saying --> it is easy check fold against c bet whit 88 99 TT JJ QQ KK since it's practically the same situation 1 over card dry board :s_mad: :s_confused:
    • sausage646
      sausage646
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2010 Posts: 567
      JJ-33,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,ATo+,KJo+,QJo,JTo,T9o - 43.97%
      TT - 56.03%


      And almost all of his pairs he is checking back on turn since they have show down value.

      Don't get me wrong I am not here to argue and I really appreciate what you are doing for this forum, I have fixed my own leaks and learned so much from other mistakes just because of >NL10 forum. But when I have part I can't understand ( and looks like I can't because these 2 threads have been a circling ) I need to figure it out.

      I really hope you will give me a strong argument and finally I can agree but till jet I haven't got one.. :diamond:

      And about "my friend told" I only did not post your name because of trying to keep discussion objective, you are a authority at this forum and I didn't want people to stand in any side just because of name I do want to analyze the hand :s_cool:
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      I can't understand how can you so easy give up on this board there is 1 over card and opponent who is c betting 100% on this kind of board.

      How should I know that? You didn't give stats. You didn't say anything. We can just assume. He may easily be Fit/Fold guy, have seen a lot of those type of players.

      Also as I saw you even didn't mention anything what kind of plan do you have with the TT. Or you just hoping that he Checks behind the turn and you always ahead? For example if I had the Ax here and I would have also CBet 100% as you said I would most likely Check behind the turn and let you bet the river and would have made in long run much more value. :)

      Or practically your play is just to Check/Call on that board and Check/Fold to any further action? While the opponent may be CBet happy and might even 2nd barrel vs you. :) As you said he is CBetting 100%. :> In long run we will loose against those opponents with this kind of play!

      And PLEASE! Read my text what I wrote not again like the last time that you read only one part of the text. I wrote ALSO!!! "Only idea of playing back against him would be in this case to Check/Call the flop and donk the turn. Since we can't represent much with Check/Raise."

      I did post the part where I did disagree whit you. "That 51/24 is not folding to c bet TT+ ever" and why should he.

      Tell me one reason why you just taking that the guy is playing 51% of the hands means that he also is a calling station postflop? We didn't have the stats of WTSD which tells that he might be a station! Being loose preflop doesn't mean that he is loose postflop, he may easily play just fit/Fold even there. Not just talking from my instinct but also from experience. There are different kind of loose players! Some go to showdown a lot, some not.

      So what YOU are saying --> it is easy check fold against c bet whit 88 99 TT JJ QQ KK since it's practically the same situation 1 over card dry board

      Once again read my text above, you have to have a plan not just going for Check/Call and then hope he is stopping barreling. Also we are OOP! If you have any other thoughts then you are welcome to write them but also write the further plan not just oh he CBets 100%.

      And almost all of his pairs he is checking back on turn since they have show down value.

      And as I said. ;) I am also Checking behind there even my Ax hand since I don't see much value to 3barrel 3 streets and in long run against especially you I would earn more value with it. :) Also balance my bluff-lines. Since I expect you to pay the river if we Check behind turn. You either bet yourself or Call the river. :)

      Don't get me wrong I am not here to argue and I really appreciate what you are doing for this forum, I have fixed my own leaks and learned so much from other mistakes just because of >NL10 forum. But when I have part I can't understand ( and looks like I can't because these 2 threads have been a circling ) I need to figure it out.

      I do like arguing but always if you are arguing then try to give some further play of yours. What's your plan for further steps. Since usually when I see that there is no further tactics for the opponent then I doubt that it's gonna be very profitable play to float here being even OOP.

      And about "my friend told" I only did not post your name because of trying to keep discussion objective, you are a authority at this forum and I didn't want people to stand in any side just because of name I do want to analyze the hand

      Fine with me until you post the whole analyze. :) How do you think people are going to react if you just taking out the part which is half-true? Or for some it might be even not true at all? It's almost the same thing as sometimes someone talks bullshit about another and then just cuts out all good what he said and says all bad. :D

      Hopefully I wasn't to attack-like with my text if I was then I'm sorry. Feel free to post any comments if you have.
    • sausage646
      sausage646
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2010 Posts: 567
      a) against solid aggressive player cc flop cc turn . Since he will fire 2nd barrel whit air and check behind all pairs. depends also on his cb flop cb turn stats.

      b) against fish cc flop cf turn if he is more on passive side I even expect him checking back weak aces and all his pairs.

      [quote]Originally posted by veriz
      [QUOTE]
      And as I said. ;) I am also Checking behind there even my Ax hand since I don't see much value to 3barrel 3 streets and in long run against especially you I would earn more value with it. :) Also balance my bluff-lines. Since I expect you to pay the river if we Check behind turn. You either bet yourself or Call the river. :)
      .[/quote]1. I am never ever calling the river if you would check back turn that line doesn't make sense - because you would never bluff in this spot it's always value bet if you would want to bluff you would bet the turn.
      2. why do you think I would lead the river, I am not turning my hand in to bluff... :s_confused:
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      a) against solid aggressive player cc flop cc turn . Since he will fire 2nd barrel whit air and check behind all pairs. depends also on his cb flop cb turn stats.

      What about the opponent we had? :) As you said he is CBetting 65% of the times and most likely turn even less. Still going for this line? :)

      But overall that's exactly the answer/thoughts I wanted to hear. :) Hopefully it helped you as well a bit and don't take my questions as being harsh on you but rather trying to be teachy.
    • sausage646
      sausage646
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2010 Posts: 567
      ok now when I look at 65 it is a little too small, should have made it bigger..