# My experience with Party Poker

• Bronze
Joined: 03.09.2010
This is a story about my experience with PartyPoker. It contains thoughts about their rake structure as well as a story about their customer support. In the end follows a motivation on why everybody loses at PartyPoker, including themselves.

When I resided in South Africa a couple of months ago I got the generous offer from pokerstrategy about an additional \$50 starting capital. I had previously added my first starting capital on FullTilt, which I cashed out in 2010 after it gone from first \$50 to \$130 to \$85 in the very beginning of my poker-career, as a result of many hours of fun at the \$1+0.2 and \$2+0.4 SNG:s. However, I decided to pick up my play again and chose Party, based on the assumption that I wanted to multi-table micro SNG:s and that Party, as one of the bigger poker rooms, had the required amount of users to do this.

Everything went on well until it one day hit me that I didn't make any money. At all. Even though it felt like I beat my level (with a small margin). Which was why and when I had a look at their rake, which I found both usurious and shameless 20% (80c+20c entrance).

Over to some quick calculations with the poker room I wanted to switch to:

1) I have 239 partypoints on my account now.
1\$rake = 2 partypoints. 239 partypoints = \$120 rake. \$120 rake = 600 80+20c SnG:s

2) \$600 entrance fee's = 400 SnG:s on lowest turbo limits at PokerStars' 12% rake (\$1.32+18c), which equals \$72 rake. That's \$48 saved just by raking less, comparing Star's 12% rake with Party's 20% rake.

3) The rake bears huge consequences on the price structure as well. With a 12% rake, first and second placement would result in (6x0.88x06) USD and (6x0.88x0.4) USD instead, based on a 60/40 distribution on a 6 handed SnG. That will say: \$3.17 and \$2.11 paid instead of the \$2.88 and \$1.92 that PartyPoker is awarding now.

4) Over, for example, 600 SnG:s, in which one finishes in paid position maybe 200 times, this would mean something like: 100x(3.17-2.88) + 100x(2.11-1.92) USD difference. \$29 + \$19, that is.

I'm not the lord of math and logic, but according to my own amateur calculations, this meant I missed out on \$48+\$29+\$19, compared to if I hypothetically would have pulled of the same result at the 1.32+0.18 Turbo's at Stars. I am very open to that the logic behind about calculations is flawed, even though I don't think that it affects my point very much.

...

This of course made me a bit angry. I play solely for fun, and as long as I make a few cents per hour, I am happy. But I would never pay to play poker, and I am not attracted at all by the gambling aspect of poker.

Anyways, this made me want to move to Stars instead. I e-mail support with the question "have I met the criteria of releasing my sign-up affiliate bonus from PartyPoker and what's the minimum amount that I need to deposit in order to get the money on my VISA-card?". And they answer accordingly ("yes. \$10."). So I use my VISA to deposit \$10-something when all of a sudden my account is locked. I e-mail them asking what's going on and they take eight(!) days to answer that my VISA card is from another country than the IP-adress of which I opened the account from. Which is the reason suspicion was rose about my account.

Ok, I thought, and went through the process of scanning my passport as well as my driver's licence as I was instructed.

After another 3 days they reply again, this time that they also need a scanning of my VISA card. And I am not the kind of guy who likes scanning and emailing copies of my VISA card and passport, but what the hell.

...3 days more wait

Account unlocked. Still can't cashout to VISA though, so I make another \$10 deposit, since maybe my first deposit got missed by their system in all the fuzz some how. Can't cashout now either though, so I email customer support once again. 3 days later (but always with the same signature that they are available 24/7 and reply withing 24h) they reply that since my account was opened in South Africa while my VISA-card is swedish, they're unable to pay me, which was when I went bananas about how absurd that was. They simply didn't keep their part of the deal. They have my passport, driver's licence, a whole summer-of-2011-of-playing from swedish IP-adress as well as my VISA. It shouldn't be any problem. A top con-artist couldn't fake all that of which I just sent them.

...

And so last night, a couple of days later, I woke up because of my telephone ringing, and a man from Party called and dropped the bomb: they believed me regarding my nationality and were willing to give me access to my \$59 bankroll. I suppose it was their way of saying we were even after the \$120 rake I raked them without getting merely a dollar my self, as well as for the huge amounts of urine I let them dump on my face during my contact with their customer support.

BUT!

My final message about this text is not that I am bitter or anything. I should've looked up levels on rake before I started playing instead of assuming that all the bigger poker clients probably had basically the same kind of deals -before I played 600 20% rake SnG:s. That's my own fault. What I want to communicate on the other hand is a warning to newer players. And I am thinking about the are playing on their \$50 starting capital.

I say: I think a 20% rake is on the verge of impossible to beat for anyone. I would love to see one of the partystrategy coaches grind 600 0.80+0.20 and 2.40+0.60 partypoker SnG:s, using no strategies/ways of thinking than what is presented in the basic and silver sections.

Then think about if PartyPoker perhaps isn't the best playground to send new players to. And after that, maybe even award me with a gold status for pointing this out for you. Cause seriously, it's gotta be a loss-deal for anyone involved:
1, PartyPoker don't get much rake from a player that is most likely to lose his starting capital very quick.
2, Pokerstrategy loses a potential member who can't even survive at the \$1 buyins.
3, a poor boy/girl loses time and interest in poker, regardless of their potential and current way of playing.

(and 4, PartyPoker doesn't deserve to have users playing at all with their current customer support)

Thanks for listening,

Lukas

Ps. as a bonus, I am also attaching a chat log that PokerStrategy-user "PxKx" posted in the swedish PokerStrategy-forums in a thread I created about this matter in that PartyPoker-Sub Forum:

Translation from English
Jen says:
Är du där? För att få denna fantastiska bonus Klicka här för att ladda ner och installera . Välj sedan om pengar-läge och gör din insättning med i kassan - det är så enkelt!
(in english: "Are you there? To get this amazing bonus, Click here to download and install. Then chose Money and deposit using the cashier - it's so easy!

User says:
Hi. I travel alot but I heard that I can't play on you site if I move abrod. Is this true?

Jen says:
Hi

Jen says:
Ok, I just need a minute of your time to tell you about our amazing first deposit bonus!

Jen says:
I'm not allowed to play because I work here.

Jen says:
sure its the truth

Jen says:

User says:
Can you stop giving me offers if you know that I can't use them

User says:
Are you trying to take money from me?

Jen says:
But this is 100% secure! We are a serious company with millions of satisfied players!

Jen says:
No, I don't think I know you. Why do you ask?

Jen says:
Gibraltar.. But I was born in England and also live in New York

Jen says:

User says:
Ok, cause a friend of mine just moved from south africa to Sweden and he can't get his money?

User says:
I'm jusworried that I'm going to encounter the same thing

Jen says:
Bye

Jen says:
Awesome!! I've heard Capetown is amazing!

Jen says:
You mean you're leaving? Oh OK.

User says:
what?

Jen says:
Bye ;-)

Jen says:
[Chat ended]
• 7 replies
• Bronze
Joined: 02.12.2010
OR...

Just play cash games. It's pretty obvious stars is better for SNG grind.
• Bronze
Joined: 03.09.2010
No it's not pretty obvious, obviously. It's not far fetched to assume that the two biggest clients out there through competition should be about equal.

Anyways, would still like to hear what PokerStrategy staff thinks about my point about new members and 20% rake.
• Bronze
Joined: 16.01.2011
I don't get why you ask ps.com staff what they think about 20% rake

Maybe you know something we don't, like Korn is actually owner of Bwin.Party-

Anyway it's free market competition and pricing is not a secret (actually Party is more upfront about this because you can see the rake apart from buyin, and at ps you can't)
Moreover high rake dramatically increases fish/reg ratio so competition is much softer on Party for sng's with 20% rake, so you wouldn't achieve same ROI on Stars.

Just to add tat i made my first cashout from Party in 1 day.

p.s. Pokerstars is obviously much better site in every aspect (expect secure deposits i guess) but that's not the issue here
• Bronze
Joined: 26.08.2007
yea, it's impossible to beat 20% rake. competition doesn't matter 'cause rake will eat you especially on 1\$ SnG. PartyPoker are loosing so much from their stupid rake system.
• Gold
Joined: 16.02.2008
Originally posted by eteris
yea, it's impossible to beat 20% rake. competition doesn't matter 'cause rake will eat you especially on 1\$ SnG. PartyPoker are loosing so much from their stupid rake system.
actually its 25% rake not 20% and its beatable but with very small ROI.
• Bronze
Joined: 26.08.2007
Originally posted by Barin22
Originally posted by eteris
yea, it's impossible to beat 20% rake. competition doesn't matter 'cause rake will eat you especially on 1\$ SnG. PartyPoker are loosing so much from their stupid rake system.
actually its 25% rake not 20% and its beatable but with very small ROI.
pictures or it didn't happen.
• Gold
Joined: 16.02.2008
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/3usd.jpg/

all 3 dollar turbo on party.