[NL2-NL10] [MSS SH] Flat with speculative hands

    • viccini
      viccini
      Global
      Joined: 17.02.2011 Posts: 337
      UTG: 14/10/2.0/20 in 230 hands
      UTG+1: 40/2/0.6/53 in 375 hands

      VP/PF/AF/WTSD


      Do I have good odds/implied odds to play with 40bb when UTG+1 calls UTG's open raise? Can you give me some guidelines about how to play these hands (or similar hands like small pocket pairs and Ax suited) in such situations?

      And what about hands like AJ, AQ, 99, TT, KQ or even AK and JJ? When should I flat with these hands and when should I fold (I can see when I have to 3bet - most of the time at least... :D - but when it comes to flating/folding I'm kind of lost).


      thx in advance! :)


      Hand Information
      , 0.1 BB (6 handed).


      Table Information
      Seat: 1 seat 1 ($10) Small Blind
      Seat: 3 seat 3 ($10) Big Blind
      Seat: 5 UTG ($10)
      Seat: 6 UTG+1 ($10)
      Seat: 8 Hero ($4)
      Seat: 10 seat 10 ($10) Dealer
      Dealt to Hero
      J:heart: Q:heart:

      Preflop (Pot:0.15)
      UTG RAISE $0.3
      UTG+1 CALL $0.3
      Hero CALL $0.3
      seat 10 FOLD
      seat 1 FOLD
      seat 3 FOLD

      Flop(Pot: $0.75)7:heart: 4:heart: T:heart:

      UTG CHECK
      UTG+1 BET $1
      Hero ALL-IN $3.70
  • 3 replies
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Originally posted by viccini
      UTG: 14/10/2.0/20 in 230 hands
      UTG+1: 40/2/0.6/53 in 375 hands

      VP/PF/AF/WTSD


      Do I have good odds/implied odds to play with 40bb when UTG+1 calls UTG's open raise? Can you give me some guidelines about how to play these hands (or similar hands like small pocket pairs and Ax suited) in such situations?

      And what about hands like AJ, AQ, 99, TT, KQ or even AK and JJ? When should I flat with these hands and when should I fold (I can see when I have to 3bet - most of the time at least... :D - but when it comes to flating/folding I'm kind of lost)

      Can you tell me what implied odds are ? I don't flat in these spots ever because it is simple spew.

      here I think you can profitably 3bet all the hands you mentioned both for value and as bluff

      Your call preflop with QJs is pretty bad because what is a 14/10's UTG range?? If you don't know that first to start then it is pretty hard to grind a profit in the first place because if you equilate QJs vs his range, you are in a pretty bad shape

      Furthermore 40bbs and a pot of 7.5bb does not give you a lot of wiggle room but the main argument is that you play against a tight player who will own you every single time you flat hands because he dominates you so often


      - Gerv
    • viccini
      viccini
      Global
      Joined: 17.02.2011 Posts: 337
      Originally posted by Gerv

      Can you tell me what implied odds are ? I don't flat in these spots ever because it is simple spew.
      - Gerv
      Usually playing BSS we could flat this kind of hand when the efective stack is higher than 70bbs cause when we hit the flop we have a big enough stack compared to the initial raise so we can try to extract value in these situations.

      With a middle stack and a cold call I have pot odds of 2,5:1. With a hand like QJs I'll hit a flushdraw/OESD on the flop 19% of the time (4,2:1) and 2 pairs 2% of the time (48,5:1). In this situation I need better implied odds cause of my smaller stack but I thought that maybe with a calling station like the UTG+1 I could have an +EV because when I hit a nice flop he'll pay me many times. Is it possible that this play can be +EV in the long run against this opponent?

      Originally posted by Gerv
      here I think you can profitably 3bet all the hands you mentioned both for value and as bluff
      I usually don't 3bet UTG for bluff cause the fold equity is not that good (sometimes I flat with monster to balance my game against a good player - if he's a donkey I always 3bet with monsters). Is it ok?


      Originally posted by Gerv
      Your call preflop with QJs is pretty bad because what is a 14/10's UTG range?? If you don't know that first to start then it is pretty hard to grind a profit in the first place because if you equilate QJs vs his range, you are in a pretty bad shape
      Let's suppose UTG raises 99+, AQ+. I'm a huge underdog with QJs against this range but can it be profitable when the calling station (UTG+1) flats because of the POV of the first question?

      tyvm!! =)
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Originally posted by viccini
      Originally posted by Gerv

      Can you tell me what implied odds are ? I don't flat in these spots ever because it is simple spew.
      - Gerv
      Usually playing BSS we could flat this kind of hand when the efective stack is higher than 70bbs cause when we hit the flop we have a big enough stack compared to the initial raise so we can try to extract value in these situations.

      With a middle stack and a cold call I have pot odds of 2,5:1. With a hand like QJs I'll hit a flushdraw/OESD on the flop 19% of the time (4,2:1) and 2 pairs 2% of the time (48,5:1). In this situation I need better implied odds cause of my smaller stack but I thought that maybe with a calling station like the UTG+1 I could have an +EV because when I hit a nice flop he'll pay me many times. Is it possible that this play can be +EV in the long run against this opponent?
      It's never +EV since your SPR is around 5 and we need a bigger stack to pot ratio (13+) to be profitable with suited connectors especially the ones that are dominated often like urs

      We need Turn & river to complete our (sometimes obvious!) draw



      Originally posted by Gerv
      here I think you can profitably 3bet all the hands you mentioned both for value and as bluff
      I usually don't 3bet UTG for bluff cause the fold equity is not that good (sometimes I flat with monster to balance my game against a good player - if he's a donkey I always 3bet with monsters). Is it ok?
      Still against a tight opponent you can sometimes do it, don't overdo it ;) you block QQ/AQ/JJ here btw


      Originally posted by Gerv
      Your call preflop with QJs is pretty bad because what is a 14/10's UTG range?? If you don't know that first to start then it is pretty hard to grind a profit in the first place because if you equilate QJs vs his range, you are in a pretty bad shape
      Let's suppose UTG raises 99+, AQ+. I'm a huge underdog with QJs against this range but can it be profitable when the calling station (UTG+1) flats because of the POV of the first question?

      tyvm!! =)

      We always have to keep the tightest range in mind as they aren't likely to fold hence you are more involved with that range. It is a nice consolation prize you are ahead against fishy calling station but if you are constantly getting owned at showdown vs the tighest player then we earn nothing right?

      Hope it helps
      Best regards,
      Gerv