[NL20-NL50] Set OOP

    • luckylooser88
      luckylooser88
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2010 Posts: 714
      $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
      PokerStars
      5 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG NeNe_MaD ($10)
      CO shtofikPS ($30.79)
      BTN Benny129129 ($37.87)
      SB Mr Wadjet ($26.31)
      BB Hero ($26.51)

      Pre-Flop: ($0.35, 5 players) Hero is BB J:spade: J:heart:
      1 fold, shtofikPS raises to $0.75, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.50

      Flop: 3:heart: 5:diamond: J:club: ($1.60, 2 players)
      Hero checks, shtofikPS bets $1, Hero calls $1

      Turn: 6:diamond: ($3.60, 2 players)
      Hero bets $2.50, shtofikPS calls $2.50

      River: 10:club: ($8.60, 2 players)
      Hero checks, shtofikPS bets $3.50, Hero raises to $9.60, shtofikPS calls $6.10


      Am I losing value here by not shoving? Or a normal raise is fine? Maybe if here has something to call my normal raise he would call the same range my shove?
  • 13 replies
    • wazawanga
      wazawanga
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.09.2009 Posts: 1,720
      how do you want to make money from poker if you dont 3b JJ vs. CO ?

      turn play is completely horrible

      you took the worst line you can ever take ever with any hand
    • JorgeTeixeira
      JorgeTeixeira
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.11.2008 Posts: 20,841
      Originally posted by wazawanga
      how do you want to make money from poker if you dont 3b JJ vs. CO ?

      turn play is completely horrible

      you took the worst line you can ever take ever with any hand
      You are going to shove JJ without any info on the vilan?

      Luckylooser, please post some info on the vilan :D
    • wazawanga
      wazawanga
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.09.2009 Posts: 1,720
      im never gonna get to river like that in the first place

      and shoving would be bad i think , weaker regs do still call river CR at this limit with overpairs so i'd try to milk him a little bit more

      learn to checkraise flops with sets and bluffs
    • JorgeTeixeira
      JorgeTeixeira
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.11.2008 Posts: 20,841
      When you said 3-bet, I thought you mean PF. And I was asking if you shove JJ PF.

      About the pos-flop, I agreee :)
    • wazawanga
      wazawanga
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.09.2009 Posts: 1,720
      Originally posted by JorgeTeixeira
      When you said 3-bet, I thought you mean PF. And I was asking if you shove JJ PF.

      About the pos-flop, I agreee :)
      3betshove preflop 100bb? what the fuck are talking about man... you are platinum level jesus christ

      i was saying just simple 3bet preflop vs. any decent CO , his range is sooo wide i can't even mention here all the reason for 3bet
    • JorgeTeixeira
      JorgeTeixeira
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.11.2008 Posts: 20,841
      Originally posted by wazawanga
      Originally posted by JorgeTeixeira
      When you said 3-bet, I thought you mean PF. And I was asking if you shove JJ PF.

      About the pos-flop, I agreee :)
      3betshove preflop 100bb? what the fuck are talking about man... you are platinum level jesus christ

      i was saying just simple 3bet preflop vs. any decent CO , his range is sooo wide i can't even mention here all the reason for 3bet
      Don`t you think you were a bit rude by the way? :evil:

      And I wasn`t saying that the hero should shove.. I was asking if that was what you meant.

      I don`t think it`s good to shove JJ that spot, that`s why also, without more info, I don`t think the 3bet is good too, since you won`t push it.
    • wazawanga
      wazawanga
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.09.2009 Posts: 1,720
      Originally posted by JorgeTeixeira
      Originally posted by wazawanga
      Originally posted by JorgeTeixeira
      When you said 3-bet, I thought you mean PF. And I was asking if you shove JJ PF.

      About the pos-flop, I agreee :)
      3betshove preflop 100bb? what the fuck are talking about man... you are platinum level jesus christ

      i was saying just simple 3bet preflop vs. any decent CO , his range is sooo wide i can't even mention here all the reason for 3bet
      Don`t you think you were a bit rude by the way? :evil:

      And I wasn`t saying that the hero should shove.. I was asking if that was what you meant.

      I don`t think it`s good to shove JJ that spot, that`s why also, without more info, I don`t think the 3bet is good too, since you won`t push it.
      ahahahaha
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by wazawanga

      turn play is completely horrible

      you took the worst line you can ever take ever with any hand
      c/c flop and leading turn can´t really be terrible, since if we hold top set it is hard him to hold hands he would go with if we c/c flop and c/r turn on dry board.
      Agree that 3-betting pf would generally be better unless co is complete nit, against that I would prefer calling.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Am I losing value here by not shoving? Or a normal raise is fine? Maybe if here has something to call my normal raise he would call the same range my shove?
      - since shove is so huge I think only sets would call your shove (and since most sets would raise on the turn) then imo you got maximum value of your hand.
      He would likely b/f river his overpairs against river shove.
    • luckylooser88
      luckylooser88
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.03.2010 Posts: 714
      I rarely 3B PF JJ and TT IP, and OOP did 3B them until i read this article unless i know he is calling 3bets with all kind of garbage, which I didn't in this case. Also, I don't play sets like this, just this time I wanted to get out of line a bit. The thing is that with a c/R on turn I most likely turn my cards face-up, I'm always strong with c/r and I just didn't want villain to know my cards. On river I could've bet my self but he would just call with overpairs/TP, that's why I wanted to play c/R because he'll call my raise with those hands. So here imo I win value against TP/OP, and lose against sets. He showed 33. Thank you all
    • tiego69
      tiego69
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.01.2008 Posts: 6
      am I the only one who thinks the pot has to be built on the flop? u're looking for value against toppairs and overpairs, is not the flop the best street to maximise it? I mean if he has tx, many cards can make him slow down or even give up.
      there are even straight draws which can call u too and flush draw on turn might even improve his hand...
      why u want to overbet a river which would be uncallable when pot can be built much earlier....
    • BigOVERBET
      BigOVERBET
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.11.2010 Posts: 433
      Like your check, but you must have some sort of a read. Villain river bet IP. Overbet all in shove is good on the river...
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by tiego69
      am I the only one who thinks the pot has to be built on the flop? u're looking for value against toppairs and overpairs, is not the flop the best street to maximise it? I mean if he has tx, many cards can make him slow down or even give up.
      there are even straight draws which can call u too and flush draw on turn might even improve his hand...
      why u want to overbet a river which would be uncallable when pot can be built much earlier....
      what hands he can really have on J53 board that would continue against c/r
      Since it is unlikely that hero has there draw, players might easily b/f their overpairs and they would likely fold all the worse hands.
      Against sets hero should get all-in anyway on the turn or river, so I don´t mind c/c flop and leading turn, since villain range is so small if we c/r top set on dry board