1/2 5 Cd

    • sigauli
      sigauli
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.04.2010 Posts: 91
      Player is pretty unknown.

      When he draws just once I put him on Two pair or a FD or OESD. Seeing me also draw only once means that he probably puts me on Two Pair+.

      So with his donk he shows that either his draw/two pair improved or that he has relatively strong Two Pair. Using the median hand for Jacks up or better(JJ22+) that is 222xx, that means I can valuebet my 666xx, but then fold to a raise, because he will clearly do it only with Straight+


      Poker Stars $1/$2 Limit 5 Card Draw - 6 players - View hand 1431701
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      Pre Draw: (1.5 SB) Hero is CO with 6 :club: 6 :spade: 6 :diamond: 4 :diamond: 2 :spade:
      UTG folds, MP raises, Hero 3-bets, BTN folds, SB folds, BB folds, MP calls

      First Draw: (7.5 SB) (2 players)
      MP draws 1, Hero draws 1
      Hand: 6 :club: 6 :spade: 6 :diamond: 4 :diamond: 2 :diamond:
      MP bets, Hero raises, MP 3-bets, Hero folds
  • 7 replies
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      You're getting 8.75:1 and you hold two cards to worse trips. I like the raise/fold line here v an unknown - assuming 1/2 isn't just a spewfest.

      FWIW I think villain can play like this with trips, not just straight+, so there must be a point you have start calling with trip hands.

      Standard disclaimer applies.
    • sigauli
      sigauli
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.04.2010 Posts: 91
      Well the median hand for trips or better is TTTxx, but this is making the assumption that he plays Trips like this - that means he only discards 1 card to balance his range, which I wasn't sure at that moment.

      If I want to call trips here I will go a little bit up to compensate for my lack of certain read about his style of playing trips and start b/c with QQQxx.
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      Originally posted by sigauli
      Well the median hand for trips or better is TTTxx, but this is making the assumption that he plays Trips like this - that means he only discards 1 card to balance his range, which I wasn't sure at that moment.

      If I want to call trips here I will go a little bit up to compensate for my lack of certain read about his style of playing trips and start b/c with QQQxx.
      Well if he bet/3bets trips the median hand doesn't matter, only your equity. You only need to be good here 1 in 9.75 (forgetting rake) to make calling the 3bet profitable (being too lazy to find 5CD equity analyser). So I think with a median hand v trips+ of TTTxx you're probably not too far away from a bet/call with 666xx - even allowing for a lack of knowledge on his playing style.

      Does that make sense or am I totally missing the point (noting standard disclaimer is in effect)?

      BTW anyone have an equity analyser for 5CD? I found EV++ has something that looks like one but says it's for 5CD 2-7 triple draw and I couldn't get it to work. Techo illiterate FTW.
    • sigauli
      sigauli
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.04.2010 Posts: 91
      We need EvGalios to help us here.
    • EvGalois
      EvGalois
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.09.2010 Posts: 68
      Hello! I just looked at how the hand went down. Would have been great with some more previous history of this player or if you could make some generalizations even but it's fine.

      Well first you are right to put him on either a 2-pair or any kind of draw. Correct. Otherwise he should logically (albeit not everyone is logical) have put in the 4th bet predraw to signal perhaps trips. But as Waiboy points out there are maniacs who make this play predraw with concealed trips (in my experience they come from Portugal, Spain or Greece if I am gonna make a generalization here haha). They are a little bit the same type of players who "sand-bag" any kind of trips (or AAup even) by limping from EP and then - even with 5 players in the pot post draw - they think they have the nuts and will overplay or overcommit their holdings.

      Now, if you don't know much about the player and he after drawing 1 card all of sudden opts to bet out post draw then you should perhaps proceed with precaution. That's a general case for me in this spot. I mean what he might have is naturally a completeted hand of any kind. But if you follow your logical assumption and putting him on exactly on the range of 2pair I perfectly understand your reraise here since your 666 could be a condition for a valueraise.

      I know there are many "stab-bettors" on 1$-2$ who try to make a point by betting out their weak 2 pairs or even a naked AA-KK post draw. However, the general case, in my experience - and that goes for all limits - is that if you have shown the initiative by making it 3 or 4 bets pre draw. Then most players will not bet into you and many times conversely if you are out of position they will just check behind if you opt to check to them.

      The median hands are very useful in the discussion post draw but then we base our assumptions on that we are in a stage of the game where opponents play "as they should" given their respective holdings. Then we can ask ourselves if we are "good" and if we should valuebet or fold. I'm just by instinct and experience telling here that given that you don't know much about this player I think that the first time he bets into you I would be more careful given I hold 666. I could consider reraising his stab-bet with something like JJJ-AAA and then be prepared to call an eventual reraise. Anyways, it is to me not a reraise here postdraw given your vague read on this specific player. I would just flat here and then I would have more information for future hands.

      As far as equity-analysers... First about EVplus.com - can you send the details on this very program? We had this discussion in two threads earlier as far as Poker Hands. I have tried all in my power to make some bigger developers create a complete software for the draw games. I mean Poker Hands is far from perfect and the development is not continuing it seems. I think many players would be prepared to pay for a program for the draw games. Especially if it is easy to install and it works! The group who started Pokeit is not active anymore it seems - maybe because USA fell... I was appointed to beta-test it but they never got back to me in July... It's a shame... So, what I have done now is that I have asked two groups in Asia (some friends run an outsourcing bizniz there) to tell me how much they would charge for a similiar project. If the price is okey I will try to proceed with that project and hopefully I can present something within 3 months or so.
    • p44mc
      p44mc
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2010 Posts: 36
      Originally posted by EvGalois
      The median hands are very useful in the discussion post draw but then we base our assumptions on that we are in a stage of the game where opponents play "as they should" given their respective holdings. Then we can ask ourselves if we are "good" and if we should valuebet or fold. I'm just by instinct and experience telling here that given that you don't know much about this player I think that the first time he bets into you I would be more careful given I hold 666. I could consider reraising his stab-bet with something like JJJ-AAA and then be prepared to call an eventual reraise. Anyways, it is to me not a reraise here postdraw given your vague read on this specific player. I would just flat here and then I would have more information for future hands.
      This is exactly how I would proceed here! I've seen a lot of players lead with missed draws here but its unlikely with you drawing 1, against an unknown villian I think your most likely facing either a made draw or AA22+, there's very few (if any) worse hands that will call a raise so I'd flat here almost 100% of the time. (I think the term is "way ahead/way behind")
    • Waiboy
      Waiboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.09.2008 Posts: 4,877
      http://www.evplusplus.com/poker_tools/equity_calculator/#