[NL2-NL10] 3bet pot, c/r turn as bluff

    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Hey guys, just posting a hand for week3 homework.

      Searched my database for over an hour before I found this hand I played months ago that I have no recollection of. BU is unknown.

      Not convinced it's necessarily a huge spew, but it's possible I was tilted at the time, I don't recall. Either way I usually make lower variance plays than this in general, especially readless.

      Looking back - I probably realised that I don't represent much with my turn raise (slow-played sets, slow-played overpairs, turned fd semi-bluffs), but villain's range also looks weak. Overcards/medium-pairs presumably can't continue to a check-raise unless he is thinking decently about my range (or is a huge station). If he realises I'm FOS a lot, perhaps it is necessary to fire certain river cards to take him off things like, 78s, AK, 99 in order to make this +EV.

      So the questions are -
      is turn check-raise ok in a vacuum?
      and
      which river-cards, (if any) would you fire?

      $0.02/$0.04 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)

      Known players:
      BB (Hero):
      $4.09
      MP3:
      $7.72
      CO:
      $20.16
      BU:
      $9.69
      SB:
      $11.00


      Preflop: Hero is BB with A, 2.
      2 folds, BU raises to $0.14, SB folds, Hero raises to $0.44, BU calls $0.30.

      Flop: ($0.9) 4, 8, T (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU checks.

      Turn: ($0.9) 3 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BU bets $0.45, Hero raises to $1.25
  • 3 replies
    • Tosh5457
      Tosh5457
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.01.2008 Posts: 3,062
      I'd cbet that flop, it's a dry one.

      As played, I don't know how that villain plays, but either way that doesn't represent anything, like you said, so I'd rather cbet than c/r the turn

      It's difficult to say what to do on the river, because I don't know the villain, and your play on the turn was probably stats or reads based.
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Originally posted by Tosh5457
      I'd cbet that flop, it's a dry one.
      It's true the flop is dry, but I also don't think he is folding very much if he calls the 3bet with any kind of reasonable value range. (Far superior to cbet on a Kxx dry board for example than a T84r imo because Kxx hits the 3bettors range much more strongly than a T84r. Villain has a larger amount of equity in general vs hero's perceived range (on a T84r) and is far more to likely to call again with mid-pair and overcards:- he can't even have 2 overcards on a Kxx etc.) Intially I was probably going to check/give-up but when he checks back the flop I guess I figured it maybe defines his range more towards weak-showdown value.

      Originally posted by Tosh5457
      As played, I don't know how that villain plays, but either way that doesn't represent anything, like you said, so I'd rather cbet than c/r the turn
      Perhaps you are right, but I'm mainly curious about the turn play if we assume the flop already went check/check. I'm not for a minute suggesting this turn c/r is my standard line or even the optimum one, but since I evidently did it once, I'm now wondering about the EV of the play.

      Originally posted by Tosh5457
      It's difficult to say what to do on the river, because I don't know the villain, and your play on the turn was probably stats or reads based.
      As I said, villain is unknown......so it's tough to optimise play. I'm just curious as what people would do if they get into this spot vs an unknown assuming they did already c/r the turn.

      Anyway, thanks for the response!
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello w34z3l,

      Totally true that it's rather the greatest board to CBet. Since it might often be the case that his Calling range will consist of a lot PPs. Rather just Check/Fold it unless you know the opponent better. Plus we can't be sure that he ain't gonna float you even with just A high.

      Well, the problem is that you said already yourself that you don't know the opponent. Therefore we can't be sure if our Check/Raise is going to be profitable play either. We can't assume that he is folding any PPs since our line doesn't make much sense either while we are OOP. Being IP it might change something, since on turn we gonna Check twice and with made hand we wouldn't do that. But being IP we can still bet the turn or decided whatever we gonna do if he Checks twice.

      So therefore, I'd just Check/Fold it and take a next hand, those players are anyways pretty loose and we can't expect them to be able fold any pairs/PPs anyways or better hands.

      Best regards.