[Old Post] Need help to improve at NL25 SH

    • NorwayCowboy
      NorwayCowboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.11.2007 Posts: 132
      Just a reminder, that this is an old post - and im not 9-tabling.


      Hey everyone,

      I AM BACK!
      :f_eek:

      Read here for my introduction CLICKY

      I wanna post a video I made during one of my sessions today, it's no commentary as my English skills are poor, but if I make another one, I will add commentary.

      What I need is help to a be a long term winner at cash games.

      Anyone got any tips or hints to where I should start my learning curve, all comments are welcome.

      Sorry for bad quality, but hard to get decent quality when playing 9 tables.

      Some of you might learn something while watching this video, while others will see my mistakes and leaks.

      Take a look, and comment. :s_biggrin:

  • 30 replies
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Less tables, no music would be a good start.....
    • NorwayCowboy
      NorwayCowboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.11.2007 Posts: 132
      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      Less tables, no music would be a good start.....
      Hmm, maybe 4-6 tables. Music is always there, love having background music.

      Is the quality too bad for reviewing the session?

      Guess I will make another one tomorrow.

      4 tables with commentary? 15 mins?
    • Wriggers
      Wriggers
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.07.2009 Posts: 3,250
      Haven't watched but from the look of it you're playing too many tables. Whilst it's still not hard to beat NL25 9tabling SH, your winrate will be massively reduced.

      When i cut down from 9 to 6 tables my winrate went from just above breakeven to like 6bb/100, and went up even more when I cut don to 4 tables :)
    • NorwayCowboy
      NorwayCowboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.11.2007 Posts: 132
      Originally posted by Wriggers
      Haven't watched but from the look of it you're playing too many tables. Whilst it's still not hard to beat NL25 9tabling SH, your winrate will be massively reduced.

      When i cut down from 9 to 6 tables my winrate went from just above breakeven to like 6bb/100, and went up even more when I cut don to 4 tables :)
      Ok, so your winrate went up, but what about $/hour?
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Originally posted by NorwayCowboy
      Originally posted by Wriggers
      Haven't watched but from the look of it you're playing too many tables. Whilst it's still not hard to beat NL25 9tabling SH, your winrate will be massively reduced.

      When i cut down from 9 to 6 tables my winrate went from just above breakeven to like 6bb/100, and went up even more when I cut don to 4 tables :)
      Ok, so your winrate went up, but what about $/hour?
      Rather have good win-rate than good $/hour tbh. More room for progression then. $/hour doesn't really count for much until your making good money imo. It's about finding balance between, volume and win rate.
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      Originally posted by NorwayCowboy
      Ok, so your winrate went up, but what about $/hour?
      So funny all these people talking about hourly rate at micros...
    • 1984ioc
      1984ioc
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.07.2011 Posts: 712
      Originally posted by Dublimax
      Originally posted by NorwayCowboy
      Ok, so your winrate went up, but what about $/hour?
      So funny all these people talking about hourly rate at micros...
      Why?
    • Wriggers
      Wriggers
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.07.2009 Posts: 3,250
      Originally posted by NorwayCowboy
      Originally posted by Wriggers
      Haven't watched but from the look of it you're playing too many tables. Whilst it's still not hard to beat NL25 9tabling SH, your winrate will be massively reduced.

      When i cut down from 9 to 6 tables my winrate went from just above breakeven to like 6bb/100, and went up even more when I cut don to 4 tables :)
      Ok, so your winrate went up, but what about $/hour?
      Not that it really matters, but say I go from 9 tabling at 1bb/100 to 6 tabling at 6bb/100, assuming 100 hands/table that's 9bb/hour vs 36bb/hour.

      But more importantly, you play better, improve more and have a bigger edge, thus we experience swings less often due to our bigger edge and we have an easier time moving up due to our increased skill. This obviously leads to a higher hourly :p
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      Originally posted by 1984ioc
      Originally posted by Dublimax
      Originally posted by NorwayCowboy
      Ok, so your winrate went up, but what about $/hour?
      So funny all these people talking about hourly rate at micros...
      Why?
      Wriggers said it all.

      Our main goal should be to improve, always. Unless you are a pro (which I doubt playing NL25 - and even so), looking at hourly rate to me is a non sense especially at micros.

      Looking at short term results only leads to one thing: mindset problems.

      Reduce the number of tables, focus one every single decision, analyse hands etc... that's what you want to do, you will be moving up the stakes much faster than multitabling even if your hourly rate is lower because you will be a stronger player.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by 1984ioc
      Originally posted by Dublimax
      Originally posted by NorwayCowboy
      Ok, so your winrate went up, but what about $/hour?
      So funny all these people talking about hourly rate at micros...
      Why?
      Because you should be thinking about improving your game and moving up to at least nl100 and grind for a living there. NL100 isnt that much tougher then NL50 and considering the rake is way lower you should be able to get about the same winrate.

      Basically before you start multitabling you should first move up to which ever limit you want to play for a while and then start thinking about your hourly.
    • NorwayCowboy
      NorwayCowboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.11.2007 Posts: 132
      Wow, thank you for some really good tips. I can see what you're saying and I will try to move down to 4 tables, and see how I do.

      But my problem with playing 4 tables is that I get problems focusing, I loose focus for a second and I open the webbrowser reading news and whatever.

      Thats why I started playing so many tables. It get's my attention and I don't loose focus.
    • Dublimax
      Dublimax
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      Are you taking notes on your opponents?

      Here is an exercise for you:
      Force yourself to take a note every single time you see a showdown. Like you can see 3B ranges, if they bet 3 streets with TPTK if they raise their draws on the flop, if they Ck/C with TPBK, do they call 3 streets with TPNK etc...
      At the end of the session review your notes on the players and tidy them up so that you get synthetic notes that you can use afterwards.

      There are tonsssssss of info that you are missing by not paying attention to the actions. This info you canuse it at your advantage and increase dramtically your winrate. It will also force you to think about how to adapt to them. (like if villain calls your 3B light you can 3B him for value wider or if he calls down 3 streets with 2nd pair you know you can get 3 streets of value with TPNK etc...). All this will make you think more abou tthe game and you will improve a lot.

      Once you get more experienced you will get these reads a little bit more automatically and then maybe you can add more tables.
    • NorwayCowboy
      NorwayCowboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.11.2007 Posts: 132
      I'm trying to take notes every time I figure out what to write.

      BTW, is there an article about taking notes?

      I have now twisted my game plan a bit. I am now trying to have 2 sessions a day and 30+ minutes of study. My first session is 9 tabling for 1-2 hours (need the points) and the second session is 2 tables where I'm taking notes, trying out new stuff I have learned, and trying to find out how to crush NL25.

      I am currently also watching and studying the video series. Crushing NL50, watched part 1 yesterday and it's really helpful.

      Will try to watch part 2 today. I also have some hands I will post later, but I am currently at work :s_tongue:
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      Hi NC

      there is this article for silver members:



      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/bss/1587/1/


      and this video for silver as well (there are also a couple of video for gold status ;) )

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/17485/

      Regards

      Thazar
    • Scooney
      Scooney
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.08.2011 Posts: 104
      How do you even play that many tables man ?( It was a poor quality vid but even with crystal clarity I think I would've been all at sea. What sort of VPIP do you have to be able to play that many tables? I play three at a time and always seem to have a hand to get involved in.
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      You and meeeeeee, we used to be together.....everyday together...alllllwaaaaaays :D

      Sorry, didn't actually see any of the vid, it's too small =/
    • NorwayCowboy
      NorwayCowboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.11.2007 Posts: 132
      Originally posted by Scooney
      How do you even play that many tables man ?( It was a poor quality vid but even with crystal clarity I think I would've been all at sea. What sort of VPIP do you have to be able to play that many tables? I play three at a time and always seem to have a hand to get involved in.
      I don't have the stats in front of me right now, but I can post some stats when I get home from work.

      It's actually not that hard to play so many tables if you are used to multitasking. The biggest change for me was TableNinja, it made my day so much easier, and I didn't have to cascade or stack the tables.

      My next step is to buy a new monitor.
    • ragney
      ragney
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.08.2010 Posts: 2,417
      Originally posted by NorwayCowboy
      Originally posted by Scooney
      How do you even play that many tables man ?( It was a poor quality vid but even with crystal clarity I think I would've been all at sea. What sort of VPIP do you have to be able to play that many tables? I play three at a time and always seem to have a hand to get involved in.
      I don't have the stats in front of me right now, but I can post some stats when I get home from work.

      It's actually not that hard to play so many tables if you are used to multitasking. The biggest change for me was TableNinja, it made my day so much easier, and I didn't have to cascade or stack the tables.

      My next step is to buy a new monitor.
      When I first got TN I moved from 6 tables to 12 tables.
      Than I moved to 18 tables.
      I moved back to 12 tables.
      Than moved down to 8 tables.
      Now I'm playing ~6 tables.

      Play less table and stay FOCUSED. It helped me:

    • NorwayCowboy
      NorwayCowboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.11.2007 Posts: 132
      Here we go, I knew it was a good call to return to PS, I've already found and repaired many leaks after reading some Basic and Bronze articles. I'll try to read some more and finish the 8 part Crushing NL50.

      This sh**t really helps...

      Still need to play many more hands, and review my game over and over again.

      But take a look here, did I do something wrong, something I should change`?


      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Play hand

      $0.1/$0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)

      Known players:
      CO (Hero):
      $25.00
      BU:
      $35.52
      SB:
      $26.52
      BB:
      $15.22
      MP3:
      $18.15


      Preflop: Hero is CO with T, T.
      MP3 raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2.25, 3 folds, MP3 calls $1.50.

      Flop: ($4.85) J, T, Q (2 players)
      MP3 checks, Hero bets $2.75, MP3 raises to $6.00, Hero calls $3.25.

      Turn: ($16.85) 4 (2 players)
      MP3 bets $9.90, Hero calls $9.90.

      River: ($36.65) K (2 players)


      Final Pot: $36.65.
      Results follow:

      Hero shows three of a kind, tens(T T).
      MP3 shows a straight, king high(9 8).

      MP3 wins with a straight, king high(9 8).


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