Video Discussion - Hellmuth/Matusow Weird Chop + The Grinder Sucks Out

    • DanielUK
      DanielUK
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2010 Posts: 91
      In the first clip from a Poker After Dark cash game, we see Matusow and Hellmuth involved a massive pot with some of Peter Jetten's money in the middle along with the blinds. Seemingly unwilling to play the hand out, the two pros agree on a pre-flop chop, leaving just some loose change in the middle.

      What do you think of what happens here? Is there any point in playing the game if you're just going to play scared? Is this bad for the game?

      Chat about it below!



      Now for our second clip. Imagine you flop two pair and your opponent decides to float your flop bet with air only to pick up a draw on the turn and then get there on the river, now imagine you're Hellmuth. Oh oh.

      Watch as Hellmuth makes the right fold to a raise by Michael 'The Grinder' Mizrachi on the river, only to be shown half of The Grinder's 'impossible' hand, much to the amusement of Matusow.

      Let us know what you think of this hand right here!

  • 10 replies
    • keoghh
      keoghh
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.07.2011 Posts: 857
      1st hand, i really dont understand why they sit down with all that money and are willing to get it all in just to get scared and play for a fraction of the original pot, good preflop action to watch though.

      Also 2nd hand was just eurghh
    • nathanrenard
      nathanrenard
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.02.2009 Posts: 816
      I bet half this table gets owned by the "young kids".

      But i love Hellmuth acknowledging that his mindset isnt good anymore, leaving the game rathar than tilting his money away like previous years.
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      1st hand it is a shame. I don't think it should be televised. Why don't they play with play money!! just plain ridiculous.

      As for the second hand I just love it. That's why PH is so great for TV. "I think we might need to page the therapist" rofl

      gg
    • Saruniks
      Saruniks
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2010 Posts: 1,213
      1st hand is shame, they should have asked for all of the table for permission because they collected antes, blinds, and even got AK out.

      It's like they would be in one team getting allin to get of 3rd player and get his money...
    • Steelbrewer
      Steelbrewer
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      Joined: 22.04.2009 Posts: 580
      I belive 1st hand was discussed already on this forum.

      2nd hand - nearly perfect play by PH cbet for value, c/c for bluff induce, bet/fold when his beat (actually he could go for c/c again since he slowed down on the turn). But sometimes fish gets there.
    • sausage646
      sausage646
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2010 Posts: 567
      about grinder suck-out..

      my thoughts:
      so Phil c bets A :diamond: Q :club: 4 :heart: and grinder calls

      Phil's range Ax , air , small pairs.
      Grinders range Ax , Qx , gut shots and floats

      6 :heart:
      Phil checks grinder bets Phil calls

      Phil's range - weak aces, 2pair +
      Grinders range AT+ , all his floats

      3 :club:
      Phil donk representing practically the same range as he have

      Why is he donking the river, if grinder have Ax its a hero call anyway and he can call only if he belives if Phil have bluff.

      If Grinder ( example if Grinder would have Ax) thinks Phil did float turn just because of Grinder image and is capable of donking river as a bluff to get Grinder off his Ax. representing 2pair + Grinder can hero call But is Phil really capable of that move, I really doubt...

      If i was in Phil place I would check call river, since I would put Grinder on air which he would 2nd barrel 4 sure since Phil range looks like weak ace, and Grinder would value bet his strong aces. And than after seeing 57o .... 3 ... 2... 1.... BLOWOUT :s_mad: "Is THIS 4 real?" .. 3... 2.. 1... "I can't belive it is happening to me" .. "f* kidding me". 3 ...2 ...1.. :f_cry: :f_cry: :f_cry:


      of course I am playing at NL 10 :D and I dont know what happens in greatest minds of poker, but I hope this made sense.. can anyone comment so at-least I know if I did make mistake..?
    • fuzzyfish
      fuzzyfish
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.01.2010 Posts: 862
      2. hand is exactly what we need televised.

      The audience for tv shows like this are mainly fish - recreational players or people who are curious about online poker and might try it one day.

      So the 2. hand is exactly the kind that entertains fish and makes them think about depositing. Because it's so freaking cool to make runner runner straight and then high-five your buddy and your buddy laughs and says that youre great and you get to win the pot and maybe youll win some more pots like this and buy your wife a present and maybe some beers.

      So long story short - great work, producers.
    • Kokiletz
      Kokiletz
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2011 Posts: 14
      I just don't understand the first hand. Since when on a coinflip situation players decide to reduce their bets?

      Second hand, happened to me a couple of time... DISGUSTED ! I feel Phil on that one.
    • philiveyfan
      philiveyfan
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2009 Posts: 304
      Originally posted by DanielUK
      In the first clip from a Poker After Dark cash game, we see Matusow and Hellmuth involved a massive pot with some of Peter Jetten's money in the middle along with the blinds. Seemingly unwilling to play the hand out, the two pros agree on a pre-flop chop, leaving just some loose change in the middle.

      What do you think of what happens here? Is there any point in playing the game if you're just going to play scared? Is this bad for the game?

      Chat about it below!



      Now for our second clip. Imagine you flop two pair and your opponent decides to float your flop bet with air only to pick up a draw on the turn and then get there on the river, now imagine you're Hellmuth. Oh oh.

      Watch as Hellmuth makes the right fold to a raise by Michael 'The Grinder' Mizrachi on the river, only to be shown half of The Grinder's 'impossible' hand, much to the amusement of Matusow.

      Let us know what you think of this hand right here!


      where can i watch full episodes?
    • Meemawuk
      Meemawuk
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2009 Posts: 758
      Hand 1

      I don't actually mind the chop that much other than the fact I'd prefer they got the table's consent, and it doesn't really make for interesting TV. The point of running hands multiple times/chopping pots etc is to reduce variance. If they run the full pot 1 time, someone is going to be below EV for a pretty big sum of money. Maybe it creates a more interesting game dynamic though. I cant remember if they had replacemets for these shows if a player busts and decides to stop playing?


      Hand 2

      I don't mind how Helmuth plays this unless Mizrachi has a history of bluff raising rivers? He might get called on the river by a hand as bad as KQ and certainly by a few hands that are checking back the river if he checks.