[NL20-NL50] BSS NL25 FR 44 on very ugly board

    • Gungunhana
      Gungunhana
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.02.2007 Posts: 429
      Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed)

      UTG+1 ($5.85)
      MP1 ($24.35)
      MP2 ($24.40)
      CO ($14.30)
      Button ($30.10)
      Hero ($38.60)
      BB ($10.45)
      UTG ($25)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 4 :spade: 4 :club:
      2 folds, MP2 raises to $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, Hero calls $0.90, 1 fold.

      Flop: ($3.25) 5 :diamond: 4 :heart: 5 :club: (4 players)
      Hero checks, MP2 bets $2.75, Button folds, Hero calls $2.75.

      Turn: ($8.75) 5 :spade: (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP2 bets $7, Hero calls $7.

      River: ($22.75) Q :spade: (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP2 checks.

      Final Pot: $22.75
      Slow played the flop, but the turn card was very ugly, against the pf aggressor.
      C/call ok? with the intention of c/c river?
  • 10 replies
    • Dippy19
      Dippy19
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.12.2007 Posts: 1,346
      Preflop raiser probably has overcards or a high pocket pair, so I would reraise the flop and if he would raise again I would fold the turn, because he probably has a high pocket pair.

      But than again I'm not that good at NL and didn't play it for a while, so this could be all wrong.

      Sorry about my previous evaluation, it was very wrong :D , I was tired.
    • Marky84
      Marky84
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.07.2007 Posts: 186
      i def would c/r the flop, on turn youre way behind even against 66 and on river any Q beats you... but after the third 5 dropped i would have played the same line
    • snowylee
      snowylee
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2007 Posts: 701
      I would c/r the flop as well since he bets against 3 people, which means that he is much more likely to have a made hand, pocketpair, than 2 overcards. I don't think playing c/c both streets is that good since he's very likely to have a pocketpair which will beat us obviously. I think I would play bet/fold turn and then c/f river in this case
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Easy check/raise on the flop with full house. and easy fold on the turn.
    • Gungunhana
      Gungunhana
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.02.2007 Posts: 429
      On the flop I slow played intentionally to get as much value as possible, so I´m not sure about c/r being the best line ( I´m not sure if slowplay is either)


      On turn , Equilator gives for that board:

      AQ+,TT+ - 55.5%
      44 - 44.5% so the odds are very good to call, I think.
    • curnow
      curnow
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2007 Posts: 1,039
      you need 5 players in the pot preflop to give you value to call , hoping to hit set

      MP2 , would can put him on a range of hands ie AJ+ middle/big pocket pair and would check/raise flop

      that turn card is about as bad as it can get and think you are beat and time to give it up
    • raasz
      raasz
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.11.2007 Posts: 271
      Originally posted by curnow
      you need 5 players in the pot preflop to give you value to call , hoping to hit set

      MP2 , would can put him on a range of hands ie AJ+ middle/big pocket pair and would check/raise flop

      that turn card is about as bad as it can get and think you are beat and time to give it up
      How do you mean you need 5 players preflop? As far as i know i always use the call 15/20 rule with small/medium pocket pairs. When i and my opponent both have 15 times the raise-amount (in this exemple hero and villains stack both have) in our stacks it's profitable to call. Besides, it's very unlikely that there will be 5 players in the pot on a 8-handed table. If you use the 5 player rule you would almost never be able to play a small/medium pair for setvalue...
    • curnow
      curnow
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.10.2007 Posts: 1,039
      Originally posted by raasz
      Originally posted by curnow
      you need 5 players in the pot preflop to give you value to call , hoping to hit set

      MP2 , would can put him on a range of hands ie AJ+ middle/big pocket pair and would check/raise flop

      that turn card is about as bad as it can get and think you are beat and time to give it up
      How do you mean you need 5 players preflop? As far as i know i always use the call 15/20 rule with small/medium pocket pairs. When i and my opponent both have 15 times the raise-amount (in this exemple hero and villains stack both have) in our stacks it's profitable to call. Besides, it's very unlikely that there will be 5 players in the pot on a 8-handed table. If you use the 5 player rule you would almost never be able to play a small/medium pair for setvalue...
      The probability of hitting a "set" on the flop is 10.8% or 8.26 to 1 against.
      The probability of hitting quads on the flop, when holding a pocket pair, is 0.25% (about 399 to 1 against).
      The probability of hitting a Full House on the flop, when holding a pocket pair, is 0.74% (a 133 to 1 shot).


      playing small pairs you want value and if there are limpers you need 5 to 1 to get odds , in tournaments you can get it HU and take a 50/50 but in cash you want to win big pots after hitting set on flop and if you dont hit you fold
    • Gungunhana
      Gungunhana
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.02.2007 Posts: 429
      Because your chances of hitting a set or better on the flop with a pp are around 7,5:1, the call20 rule was created. You can go HU provided both have more than 20x the bet on their stacks
    • Thorsten77
      Thorsten77
      Black
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 12,896
      I bet/raise or c/raise such a flop often, as he may have a pocket like 88/99 which will go all the way... As played, the c/c turn is ok and I'd c/f the river.