Advice about a bonus

    • Elertar
      Elertar
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.08.2011 Posts: 164
      Hello community,

      PartyPoker is offering me (I don't know if just to me or to everybody) a '$25 USD Fixed' bonus. Right now I still have the PokerStrategy $50 initial bonus active. It expires 11-Nov-2011 and I still have to earn 79 Party Points to release it.

      The type of this new bonus they're offering me is 'Release restricted' (I understand this means they give me the money AFTER I get the points) and the delivery method is '4 installments of $6.25 USD Fixed'. It says that each installment is issued when I get 25 Standard Points on PartyPoker.com (I assume that Standard Points is the same as Party Points).

      What I see about this is that, as I play NL2, there is no way I can make 100 Party Points in 15 days. I can't play in a higher limit either, because I lack the bankroll and the ability. Moreover, I understand I have to clear the sign up $50 bonus before I can even think of clearing a new bonus.

      My question is... Is there something I'm missing? Are they offering me this bonus to incite me to step up the limits and go broke? Is this just a common offer which may be useful to other players, but I must just ignore it?

      Thank you in advance!
  • 12 replies
    • Firefly52
      Firefly52
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.01.2011 Posts: 147
      I hace been chatting with partypoker livechat about this and they say you can only have ONE bonus active at a time. furthermore it is NOT possible to pause the "pokerstrategy bonus". After explaining that the pokerstrategy bonus is not a bonus at all, just a mere lifting of restrictions they said there isn't anything they can do about it.

      This is kind of sad, as a new NL2 player I could definitely use that bonus (it is 50% rakeback if you calculate it out) to boost my still small bankroll a bit. Because we are victims, pokerstrategy is a victim as well, which kind of sucks.

      I cannot imagine that pokerstrategy would want us to miss out on great bonusses because our restrictions haven't been lifted yet. Maybe someone from pokerstrategy can have a talk with them?
    • fruktpuff
      fruktpuff
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.09.2010 Posts: 3,982
      I noticed that they launched 2 bonuses today, the "fixed" bonus appears to have been removed though.

      I however counted both the bonuses to be equivalent to 25% Rakeback..
    • Firefly52
      Firefly52
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.01.2011 Posts: 147
      Originally posted by fruktpuff
      I noticed that they launched 2 bonuses today, the "fixed" bonus appears to have been removed though.

      I however counted both the bonuses to be equivalent to 25% Rakeback..
      I still got both bonuses paused, 25$ for 100 points, 2 points per 1$ rake equals 50% rake-back for me, it would definitely help me boost my bankroll a nice bit, as I am beating the rake by almost nothing right now :/.
    • fruktpuff
      fruktpuff
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.09.2010 Posts: 3,982
      Oh yeah, I've got a cold, I must've massively messed up the maths. :)

      4 increments of 25 points each, I somehow must've counted 1PP=$1 despite knowing so much better. :)

      Right you are sir!

      Remember that you only have 15 days to clear each bonus however, and if you got both at once, you'll need to really put in volume now that they run weighted contributed rake.

      Regards,
      Richard
    • Firefly52
      Firefly52
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.01.2011 Posts: 147
      Originally posted by fruktpuff
      Oh yeah, I've got a cold, I must've massively messed up the maths. :)

      4 increments of 25 points each, I somehow must've counted 1PP=$1 despite knowing so much better. :)

      Right you are sir!

      Remember that you only have 15 days to clear each bonus however, and if you got both at once, you'll need to really put in volume now that they run weighted contributed rake.

      Regards,
      Richard
      I could easily go for 1 increment of 25 points = $6.25. But because they wont let me get the bonus as long as pokerstrategy restrictions are still active I have to get another 65 points first, which is indeed kind of impossible for me. :( .
    • fruktpuff
      fruktpuff
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.09.2010 Posts: 3,982
      I really wished I had been fast enough to grab the fixed release bonus though, since a mindeposit would've been enough. :(

      But I'm at work so couldn't deposit. :(

      I'm still clearing my $100 WPTPARIS deposit bonus at 6pp/$ atm, but I'd totally prioritise these as they're way better.
    • c0wking
      c0wking
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2010 Posts: 109
      It's hard, but doable in 1/2 & 2/4 cent. Depends if you have a job.

      I earned 4.5 PP today playing poker for about 3 hours, mixing between 4 tabling 1/2 cent (full ring), and 3 tabling 6-max in 2/4 cent.

      So if I 6-tabled 1/2 cent (which I normally do) or 4 tabled 6-max in 2/4, playing poker for ~5-6 hours a day, I could clear the bonus completely.

      Besides, 1/2 cent is SO full of fish in party, you can make some "good" money there if you're starting out. Just play super tight/aggressive (you can even play a bit more nit than in the basic/bronze articles), and you will easily earn at least 1$/hour if you 4+ table. If you're new, I'd recommend sticking to 1/2 cent, and just clear as much of the bonus as you can. Moving to 6-max in 2/4 cents can tilt you pretty easily if you have a 50$ bankroll.

      6x30= 180$ + 50$ (starting br) = almost enough to move to 5/10c in a month.

      But, as said, in your case, you probably can't use it, since you have the PS bonus active.
    • Elertar
      Elertar
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.08.2011 Posts: 164
      Besides, 1/2 cent is SO full of fish in party, you can make some "good" money there if you're starting out. Just play super tight/aggressive (you can even play a bit more nit than in the basic/bronze articles), and you will easily earn at least 1$/hour if you 4+ table. If you're new, I'd recommend sticking to 1/2 cent, and just clear as much of the bonus as you can. Moving to 6-max in 2/4 cents can tilt you pretty easily if you have a 50$ bankroll.


      I still have a lot to learn... I've played 12k hands on NL2 and I'm at -1.17 BB/100. Although if we just look at the last week I'm doing +1.90 BB/100. So as you can see I'm still far from earning 1$/hour.

      Anyway I find your reply very interesting and I'll take it into account when I clear the PS bonus and another bonus come.
    • c0wking
      c0wking
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2010 Posts: 109
      I used to be loose aggressive (even though I thought I was semi-tight), but once I read the basic/bronze articles and just started playing like it (even a bit more tight than that), I purged my LAG (loose-aggressive) stats to see how much better I do playing TAG (tight-aggressive).

      I've now played TAG for 5k hands in 1/2 cent, BB/100 = 15.7, $/h = 1.32. I even had a bad streak there, but they really don't matter. There is little to no variance on the 1$/h on average. 32$ profit in 5k hands. You can get out of 1/2 cent in less than 10k hands. If you six table 100 hands per table, you get 600 hands per session. Although it's better to 3-4 table when you're trying it out for the first time(s).

      Forget about limping hands like KJs, KQo etc... face cards like that are basically just useful for attempting steal on the BU or CO and only IF the blinds have a reasonable VP$IP/fold BB. More often than not, the loose guys are also semi or hyper-aggressive, and if you don't hit the flop, you have to fold. All "semi" good hands just drain your winnings from the monster hands.

      The only hands I basically play in party's 1/2 cent are pocket pairs (any), AK, Ax suited if you're in position (either late position limp with many limpers, blind steal, or blind limp), and AJ+ (for blind stealing, you need to play these according to the opponent's VP$IP as well).

      Call with pocket pairs (only against deep stacks, short-stacks can't pay you back enough even if you hit a set. Short-stacks are your enemy, avoid them, unless you got a made hand pre-flop). Raise with pocket pairs like 8-9 (but not from UTGs). Sometimes you might even want to limp if you're in middle position and you have some VP$IP 50-80 guys after you. Pocket pairs are also good for stealing the blinds in late pos.

      Limp/fold with Axs (or steal from CO or BU). Use discretion with these also. Don't play these from UTGs or early middle pos, you will have to fold to a raise.

      AJ+ play depending on your position and opponent's VP$IP. I don't really play a lot of A-face hands, since you basically need them in late pos.

      KQs - only face card hand you should limp with (and even that in late position to a multiway limp pot).

      Remember, there is NO point in trying to bluff a complete calling station. This goes for cont. bets as well. If you don't hit the flop in a steal attempt with AQs against a calling station, DO NOT CONT. BET!

      The only hands you call a raise with are pocket pairs. 3-bet with AK and pocket pairs 10 & above. 3-betting with pocket 10s is not always the best idea either, depends on the opponent. If a guy with VP$IP/100 = 4 player raises from UTG, you're most likely beat without a set, so no point 3-betting.

      It's super simple, and you can multi-table very easily, since you don't play a lot of hands.

      Always join the tables with highest "player per flop" and high average pot sizes.

      Bet sizes you take directly from the articles, there's no sense betting 6 cents into a pot of 30 cents on the flop.

      Don't commit to multiway limp pots unless you have the nuts (set, ace nut flush etc..). If you're on a nut flush draw, call raises according to mathematics.

      Protect your monster hands against flushes etc... don't slow play against calling stations (unless they're also hyper aggressive, basically on tilt), just get the money in pre-flop, then keep firing after.

      It's super simple. Just don't tilt when a retard hits a 1-4 out on the river, or a runner-runner, shit happens.

      Win big with big hands, avoid losing with weak-medium hands. You can usually play like 70-100 hands per table, before even the biggest idiots realize your 3-bet is a monster.

      If you spot another TAG, and they start showing hard aggression from blinds or UTG, get out the way (unless you got KK AA). Other tags are most vulnerable on the blinds (they won't defend blinds against raises unless they've got it big), and late position (where their hand range is bigger).

      Just read the basic/bronze articles on the strategy section, they are 100% perfect for 1/2 cent. When your title turns to "shark" in poker-edge.com player search, you're doing it right.
    • Elertar
      Elertar
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.08.2011 Posts: 164
      Thank you very much for this info! I really like it. First of all, let me tell you that apparently I already am a shark... http://www.poker-edge.com/poker-player-stats/elertar/ lol, they are missing 2000 hands. Looks like they've lost the losing ones, because they show that I'm making $14.

      More or less I play the same hands preflop as you tell here. I have 13.6/10.5 (VPIP/PFR).

      Raise with pocket pairs like 8-9 (but not from UTGs). Sometimes you might even want to limp if you're in middle position and you have some VP$IP 50-80 guys after you.

      This is interesting. I make a mental note.

      Remember, there is NO point in trying to bluff a complete calling station. This goes for cont. bets as well. If you don't hit the flop in a steal attempt with AQs against a calling station, DO NOT CONT. BET!

      PokerStrategy articles say that you always cbet against one single opponent, if I'm not mistaken... That's what I've been doing. So you say that in these limits it's profitable not to bluff cbet against a single calling station, which brings me to a new question. What stats has a guy so that you consider him a calling station? Something like VPIP>25, PFR<5 and AF<1?

      Don't commit to multiway limp pots unless you have the nuts (set, ace nut flush etc..). If you're on a nut flush draw, call raises according to mathematics.

      Do you mean strictly the nuts? If for instance I hit a flush on the flop with 95s against 3+ opponents, should I play for pot control?

      If you spot another TAG, and they start showing hard aggression from blinds or UTG, move, bitch, get out the way (unless you got KK AA). Other tags are most vulnerable on the blinds (they won't defend blinds against raises unless they've got it big), and late position (where their hand range is bigger).

      What AF is more or less the minimum to consider someone a TAG?

      Thank you again for the post! I've added you to my friend list, if you don't mind.

      Best regards.
    • c0wking
      c0wking
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2010 Posts: 109
      Originally posted by Elertar
      Raise with pocket pairs like 8-9 (but not from UTGs). Sometimes you might even want to limp if you're in middle position and you have some VP$IP 50-80 guys after you.

      This is interesting. I make a mental note.
      It's not really something you HAVE to do, it's just how I do it. Just play TAG, and make your own rules that work for you and your playstyle.

      Personally, in 1/2 cents with so many fish, I don't like raising with pocket pairs UTG for example. Since they're calling stations anyway (mostly), I can still get a good pot if I hit a set limping it. Less variance makes it mentally easier to play, especially when I'm already earning 1$/h. Even though this is 1/2c we're talking about, watching your chips drain without ever hitting a set is depressing.

      Originally posted by Elertar
      PokerStrategy articles say that you always cbet against one single opponent, if I'm not mistaken... That's what I've been doing. So you say that in these limits it's profitable not to bluff cbet against a single calling station, which brings me to a new question. What stats has a guy so that you consider him a calling station? Something like VPIP>25, PFR<5 and AF<1?
      There's literally no sense cbetting a guy with VP 60 something unless you got it. You can't make them fold, and if you give up betting, you're gonna face a turn/river bet 80% of the time.

      Since they play practically anything, any pair will beat you, unless you hit on turn/river, and it's just gonna make you tilt when a calling station beats your AK five times in a row with 7-4o. It's impossible to predict what they're holding, because they play/call practically anything.

      25 VP is not really a calling station, even a TAG can have 25 if he's got a good run of cards. In 1/2 cents, the real calling stations are ~40+. They never give up a blind either, just call with 8c with anything. It's also too expensive to over-bet since they might just call it most of the time. There's 1-2 calling stations in every "good" table in 1/2 cents.

      The articles state to cbet on draw-safe boards, otherwise calling stations will chase the draw (and there should preferably be a high card there as well, a scare card), you definitely don't do it 100% of the time. It makes it obvious that you're bluffing, if you do it 100% of the time.

      I don't even have aggressions up on my hud, I keep stats like fold BB, fold to cbet, attempt to steal, pre-flop 3bet, fold 2 3bet etc... aggression is something I can keep in mind without the hud.

      Originally posted by Elertar
      Don't commit to multiway limp pots unless you have the nuts (set, ace nut flush etc..). If you're on a nut flush draw, call raises according to mathematics.

      Do you mean strictly the nuts? If for instance I hit a flush on the flop with 95s against 3+ opponents, should I play for pot control?
      By nuts I mean the best hand (by your estimation) on any given street. Since the only time you'll be playing 95s, you're the BB in a limping pot, you can bet, but checking wouldn't be a wrong choice either (you haven't invested any money in the pot, and there's a chance it might just check around all the way to showdown. You can also see if the turn makes the flush for anyone else, without putting money in the pot). If anyone (especially the calling stations) are holding A K (or maybe even Q) of the flush, they're very likely to chase it.

      If you do bet, and another of the same color hits the board, check/fold to raise. In limp pots, don't get invested if you aren't sure you'll win it. Not losing money = earning money. The monster hands are the ones that make your profit, with all other hands, you're just playing to see if you hit a monster.

      Originally posted by Elertar
      What AF is more or less the minimum to consider someone a TAG?.
      I just spot tags by keeping a mental note of the hands they play, but when I'm multi-tabling six tables at a time, I just base it on their VP$IP. If a VP 13 player 3-bets you from the blinds against your steal attempt, it's a safe fold unless you got a big pair. 1/2 cent is simple, believe what people tell you. Low VP players tend not to bluff (and tend to be aggressive anyway, especially short-stacks). If you think your AQs is beat pre-flop against a low VP blind (who 3-bets you this one time), it most likely is.

      Originally posted by Elertar
      First of all, let me tell you that apparently I already am a shark... http://www.poker-edge.com/poker-player-stats/elertar/ lol, they are missing 2000 hands.
      That's exactly how your graph should look like (after 7k) in 1/2 cent, only going upwards. If you're losing lots of money playing tag in party's 1/2 cent, the problem is probably on post-flop play. Bluff too much? Chase outs you shouldn't etc? Folding your hand is a skill as well. Properly played tag really shouldn't have much variance in 1/2 cent, since the only time you really put money in the middle is when you're gonna win it.

      Playing tag you also can't tilt/get discouraged if one table is going bad. Sometimes you just don't get it. One table is 50 cents down, other two are 1 dollars up etc.. single table performance is meaningless, as long as you're making the right decisions.

      Your cont. bet is a bit high though, you should probably start giving more thought when to actually bluff cbet. Don't do it against calling stations, and only do it when you know you can make your opponent fold. He might not believe you got anything when the board is 2-7-9.

      Those are my stats. I started playing tag at 4k hands, right when I reset my stats. The decline at 7k is 2/4c 6-max, I need to get better before I can grind it. Right now 1/2c is actually more profitable for me.

    • Elertar
      Elertar
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.08.2011 Posts: 164
      Originally posted by c0wking
      The monster hands are the ones that make your profit, with all other hands, you're just playing to see if you hit a monster.
      I need to get this well into my mind.

      Originally posted by c0wking
      If you're losing lots of money playing tag in party's 1/2 cent, the problem is probably on post-flop play. Bluff too much? Chase outs you shouldn't etc? Folding your hand is a skill as well. Properly played tag really shouldn't have much variance in 1/2 cent, since the only time you really put money in the middle is when you're gonna win it.
      You are right, the problem is post-flop play. I tend to overestimate top pairs and overpairs, but I think lately I've corrected this. And now, thanks to what you tell me, I see that I have to stop bluff-cbetting calling stations. And in general, I think I should play tighter post-flop.

      Originally posted by c0wking
      Those are my stats. I started playing tag at 4k hands, right when I reset my stats. The decline at 7k is 2/4c 6-max, I need to get better before I can grind it. Right now 1/2c is actually more profitable for me.
      I hope I can see an improvement like that on my graph soon. Thank you very much!