[NL2-NL10] NL2 SH - JJ until Turn

    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Train of Thought:
      JJ is a combination that sure puts me in trouble. Almost all the time, if I don't flop a J.
      On the preflop I decide to call, but now that I see it he had the stack for the Call20 but I didn't, is this my error on this hand?

      Assuming it's not, let's say I had the stack to call:
      on the flop, no scary cards for me, but he bets a pretty big amount. Usually I would have folded at this point, but I saw that this guy is really aggressive after the flop basically atc, and he doesn't respect re-raises whatsoever because people keep feeding him and he's got a "huge" stack.
      So I decide to call. And continue on this road if I don't see scary cards.
      Turn: scary card, I fold on his huge bet.

      Please be as precise as you can in analyzing every passage of this hand and my train of thought, I really need help with JJ.

      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      SB:
      $3,83
      Hero:
      $2

      0,01/0,02 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy.com Elephant 0.102 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is CO with J:diamond: , J:club:
      2 folds, Hero raises to $0,08, BU folds, SB raises to $0,14, BB folds, Hero calls $0,06.

      Flop: ($0,30) 7:heart: , 4:heart: , 2:club: (2 players)
      SB bets $0,21, Hero calls $0,21.

      Turn: ($0,72) A:diamond: (2 players)
      SB bets $0,69, Hero folds.

      Final Pot: $1,41
  • 8 replies
    • Bogdan1190
      Bogdan1190
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2009 Posts: 406
      Hi,AtrociousNightmare

      JJ is a verry good hand. I dont think you should go by the call20 rule here becouse that rule is good for lower pairs ( with which you can't win a hand by itself for example 22 )

      You have a good hand he only minraises you and i see that he plays a lot of hands which means he doesn't necesarly have a monster.

      I would of reraise him pre-flop and if he raises to all-in maybe call since he has a VPIP of 63

      In the articles says as a rule of thumb to bet 3/4 of the pot his bet sizes are ok are not big and the one on the turn is ok too.

      He could have Ax Kx type of hands and not raising pre-flop you let hands that probably fold pre-flop to see the flop cheaply and when you have jacks you don't want that.

      Kind regards,
      Bogdan
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by Bogdan1190
      Hi,AtrociousNightmare

      JJ is a verry good hand. I dont think you should go by the call20 rule here becouse that rule is good for lower pairs ( with which you can't win a hand by itself for example 22 )

      You have a good hand he only minraises you and i see that he plays a lot of hands which means he doesn't necesarly have a monster.

      I would of reraise him pre-flop and if he raises to all-in maybe call since he has a VPIP of 63

      In the articles says as a rule of thumb to bet 3/4 of the pot his bet sizes are ok are not big and the one on the turn is ok too.

      He could have Ax Kx type of hands and not raising pre-flop you let hands that probably fold pre-flop to see the flop cheaply and when you have jacks you don't want that.

      Kind regards,
      Bogdan
      Well I actually raised pre-flop, but he re-raised me.
      Ofc at that point following the articles, since I have a pocket pair, I'm on the Call20 rule.
      His VPIP of 63 is based only on 88 hands, not really that reliable I think.
      Yeah true his bet sizes are pretty standard, I said huge because with an A there it seemed huge to me >.<
    • Bogdan1190
      Bogdan1190
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2009 Posts: 406
      He re raised you by a small amount that is why i said to go a little further and raise again :) since you are only afraid of QQ KK AA.

      You call20 in the idea that when you hit a set you can earn enough from your opponent.

      This holds true to all poket pairs but when you have stronger pairs you don't care anymore about that.For example if you had acces and someone raises you, you wouldn't call or reraise because of the call20 rule ?

      I know it is a smallish hand count for the VPIP but i believe that he played like that in your session and if he plays 63% of his hands in your session i think it is ok to asume that he is a loose player.
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by Bogdan1190
      He re raised you by a small amount that is why i said to go a little further and raise again :) since you are only afraid of QQ KK AA.

      You call20 in the idea that when you hit a set you can earn enough from your opponent.

      This holds true to all poket pairs but when you have stronger pairs you don't care anymore about that.For example if you had acces and someone raises you, you wouldn't call or reraise because of the call20 rule ?

      I know it is a smallish hand count for the VPIP but i believe that he played like that in your session and if he plays 63% of his hands in your session i think it is ok to asume that he is a loose player.
      Mmm yeah probably I should have re-raised his mini re-raise, but he was crazy enough to go all-in at me after that, and I mean in that case I wouldn't have known what to do.
      Call him? Really? With JJ? Sure it's a strong hand but after a 4bet all-in, not that much anymore.
      At the same time though we are dealing with a 63% VPIP, so this just gives me a huge headache. :rage:
    • Bogdan1190
      Bogdan1190
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.04.2009 Posts: 406
      Yeah i would call and take a note :) not that often he will min-raise you with KK QQ or AA.

      Most likley AQ or AK where you are ahead.

      It also depends on how you play i think its a flip the all in pre-flop but more in your side im at work and can't enter the equilab to show you the chances of the flip.
    • Bierbaer
      Bierbaer
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2005 Posts: 7,989
      I'm also reraising his min3bet.
      If he shoves I'm usually folding because even though he has 63 VPIP, he only has a PFR of 11.

      Btw the 63VPIP might not be entirely accurate over 88 hands, but you can definitely draw the conclusion that he's superloose, his actual VPIP is most likely at least 50%.

      As played wether to call down or fold postflop depends on your assumptions, but generally vs an opponent like him (2.8AF) when I call preflop it is to induce bluffs, therefore I'm definitely not folding the turn here, actually I plan on calling turn & river.
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Alright thank you very much, this brings a bit of light to the JJ darkness!
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello AtrociousNightmare,

      Preflop: Well, I actually like the Call of his 3bet here. :) We don't have to overplay the hand while we even don't know if the opponent is capable of doing light the 3bets. If we are getting good odds then why not just use them and play postflop against him? :) Seems to be totally great idea to do so. 4bet/folding would be a bit too weak also. If I'd 4bet then I'd rather also plan to go broke.

      As played
      Postflop: According his bet sizes I guess I wouldn't change much. Most likely I'd play the same way as you did. Hard to Call the turn while we even don't know him that much. I mean obviously the Ace could be good card for him. But usually they don't overplay their hands postflop anyways. While he almost makes it pot size as well, which could indicate to strength.

      Best regards.