good fold?

    • needagun
      needagun
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      Joined: 21.04.2011 Posts: 47
      hello, recently i made a painful fold, please tell me if you think the opponent had it or not

      (NL4) so, i raise from under the gun in a 9 handed table 3bb with 77, the bb calls, flop comes QQJ, he checks i check, then some other card, he bets 1 big blind i call, then a 7 comes and gives me a full house, he goes all in i fold, what do you think? i'm sure he had QJo

      oh and i forgot to mention, ours stacks were both over 100bb
  • 15 replies
    • Krishjanis
      Krishjanis
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      Joined: 04.01.2010 Posts: 977
      I would have folded as well, just because you have only invested 4bb, it's wasn't like the pot was huge, he could have had just the Q, but he also could have had the full house and why risk it for 4bb, just fold and wait for a better spot.
    • gsergiul
      gsergiul
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      Joined: 26.11.2010 Posts: 234
      With no reads even though it's painful I think it's a decent fold but I think he had QQ/JJ not QJ because it doesn't make sense to 3bet.
    • needagun
      needagun
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      Joined: 21.04.2011 Posts: 47
      he didn't 3 bet he just called pre flop
    • wnbMG
      wnbMG
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      Joined: 10.04.2011 Posts: 586
      thats a sick fold...maybe the turn/river cards make some straights/flushes and he's doing that with it or just with AQ or whatever Qx. ;)
    • fuzzyfish
      fuzzyfish
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      Joined: 12.01.2010 Posts: 862
      NL4 is not a suitable place for making herofolds.
    • needagun
      needagun
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      Joined: 21.04.2011 Posts: 47
      looked to me like the typical slow play then all in, what i think they think is that it looks like a stupid bluff or i don't know, but i have seen people doing this before

      if i remember correctly there were no straights or flushes possible

      i think that if he just had a queen he'd bet the turn and river normally


      fuzzyfish of course you are right, people call 2 pot sized raises with any pair and easily call an all in with top pair good kicker but this hand looks a little different to me and i have had some horrible coolers happen in the past where i was sure they had it but i just couldn't fold
      if i had KQ or AQ or JJ i'd have called 3 big bets on every street, i'd think about QJ but still call, but the way he played it makes me think he had QJ
    • shichibukaii
      shichibukaii
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      Joined: 28.06.2009 Posts: 48
      I personally wouldn't fold it, thought he might have had a queen.
    • Firefly52
      Firefly52
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      Joined: 20.01.2011 Posts: 147
      In NL2 I would definitely call such a hand, possibly even with AJ.

      In the very unlikely case he is not a donk / fish, you at least know for the next time.
    • Scooney
      Scooney
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      Joined: 14.08.2011 Posts: 104
      Originally posted by needagun
      he checks i check, then some other card...
      Love that.

      Big fold, I don't think I could've got away from it at this level. He'd play a Q the same way, and you have to assume he was QQ (last two Queens in the deck),QJ, Qx(whatever the turn was) or Q7 (case 7). Oh or pocket X( turn card), if that would've beat you. Theres so many other hands you can beat.
    • caledonia
      caledonia
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      Joined: 31.07.2011 Posts: 18
      looks fishy to me,i would think he only had J-10 if that,the all in seems like a steal as you have shown you don't have the Q or J he would surely have put a value bet in if he had the nuts but if not its a small pot so let it go and trap him later.....
    • Scooney
      Scooney
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      Joined: 14.08.2011 Posts: 104
      Just ran a couple of possible villain ranges on PokerStove - All the hands that beat you, Q's down to Q7 suited (if he's fishy which considering the river shove he looks like), and a selection of bluffs. And you're crushing him with more than 90%. Definate call.
    • Jan217
      Jan217
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      Joined: 02.01.2009 Posts: 626
      Originally posted by Scooney
      Just ran a couple of possible villain ranges on PokerStove - All the hands that beat you, Q's down to Q7 suited (if he's fishy which considering the river shove he looks like), and a selection of bluffs. And you're crushing him with more than 90%. Definate call.
      That depends entirely on how many bluffs you gave him. bear in mind that there are 16 combos of AK out there and only 6 of QJ, so every bluff you give him 'counts' more then twice one of his his value hand in pokerstove. With 90% equity you are essentially assuming hes bluffing 90% of the time! Id be careful of putting ANY bluffs in villians range, because it takes a VERY specific and unusual kind of fish to shove into 8bb with air as a bluff. you definately need to have seen him do this at least once before to make the assumption that hes capable of bluffing in that situation.

      However he can definately have worse value hands than your full house. Many fish, especially at nl4 will make this kind of shove with just bare Q, just hoping you'll call with a worse hand. You can at least give him KQ and AQ, which is 16 combos. There are 16 combos in total of QJ, Q7, QQ, JJ. So allready this is a call considering there are 8bb in the pot. Any extra hands in his range just make it more +EV so I wouldnt fold this hand, unless you have reads that this line by the fish is the nuts only.

      *edit* just read you were both over 100bb deep. For like 200+ bb I would fold this hand because yes there will be better spots to stack him, and you lose quite a lot of future potential EV by making a somewhat marginal call because you wont be this deep with him again for a while.
    • needagun
      needagun
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      Joined: 21.04.2011 Posts: 47
      Originally posted by Scooney
      Originally posted by needagun
      he checks i check, then some other card...
      Love that.
      what i mean is that the turn card was a blank :)



      QQ or JJ he'd 3 bet for sure, and i really doubt he'd call with Q7s

      i think he simply considered that he is entitled to get my whole stack with his hand and was angry i didn't bluff his 1bb bet or whatever, and that when he flops a full house he deserves your stack so he shoved on the river, and i think if he had AQ or KQ he would have played more normally, check the flop, pot bet on turn pot bet on river
    • yeahyoung0312
      yeahyoung0312
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      Joined: 16.12.2009 Posts: 340
      My question is why did you call his 1bb turn bet at first place. Raise/fold there makes more sense.
    • GunnarPB
      GunnarPB
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      Joined: 30.03.2011 Posts: 28
      i would c/bet the flop after his check would have made the hand a lot easier and if he had nothing you would probably steal the pot, if he raised your bet just fold, if he calls just check/fold the turn