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facing raises with TPTK

    • DrDunne
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,378
      what do you think? hard to just sighfold after not hitting a hand in ages then suddenly you hit TPTK, bet out and get a)minraised or b)raised a standard amount.

      minraise could be some fish saying:
      "i don't want to scare him off and i want him in the hand"
      "i have nothing and i want to scare him off, but i don't have a clue about bet sizing"
      "i have top pair and no understanding of domination"

      a big bet could be some fish saying:
      "i have a good hand; TP+"
      "i dont have anything and want to bluff him off"

      or something along those lines.

      i've just read an article which concerns minraises on the flop and it basically states that itlr we are behind more often than not. more specifically, we can safely assume we are behind 75% of the time when facing a minraise. i can believe this completely - sometimes i feel like im often folding the best hand so i'll test my way of playing and call down to the river and surprise surprise, i run into 2pair/set. the article is really interesting and seems like some sound advice so i have no problem with following this.

      on the other hand, what about a raise which is not a minraise? what about a standard sized raise? or even just a shove on the flop? the shove often screams out to me that they don't have a strong hand! but then when i think about it, i'm sure there are some people that see a nice hand and say WHOOO! and shove without giving it much thought.

      what are your thoughts when you hold TPTK and face a raise? i'm not asking for any particular position and against any specific stats. just a broad question. here's the article: minraises
  • 4 replies
    • gadget51
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Came up against these two [and more :rolleyes: ] this morning, if this is what you mean.
      Against certain op types I just get rid of it, but sometimes (e.g. the second hand) I can get a bit sticky!. lol.
      I'm not sure I should fold the river for 1/2 pot after calling the turn but I'm not ahead very often v this guy, so prob should have dumped on the turn, nh sir.

      This stuff is obviously very oponent dependant etc., as you likely know, so v some villains I'll be shoving my AA, not folding, blah blah.

      The way to approach these situations - and it's not always easy on a tough day - is with a cold calculator for a head; no ego, tilt, etc., etc., etc., just cold hard play.
      It stops me getting too spewy most times, but it always sucks.

      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.10(BB) Replayer
      SB ($8.47)
      Hero ($11.37)
      UTG ($30.08)
      CO ($5.19)
      BTN ($13.24)

      Dealt to Hero A:spade: J:club:

      fold, fold, fold, SB calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.30, SB calls $0.20

      FLOP ($0.60) 4:heart: J:heart: 6:spade:

      SB checks, Hero bets $0.40, SB calls $0.40

      TURN ($1.40) 4:heart: J:heart: 6:spade: 9:diamond:

      SB checks, Hero bets $0.65, SB raises to $1.95, Hero folds

      SB wins $2.57

      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.10(BB) Replayer
      SB ($9.93)
      BB ($10.82)
      UTG ($23.25)
      Hero ($13.59)
      BTN ($11.44)

      Dealt to Hero A:club: A:diamond:

      fold, Hero raises to $0.30, fold, fold, BB calls $0.20

      FLOP ($0.65) 4:heart: T:spade: 2:club:

      BB checks, Hero bets $0.50, BB calls $0.50

      TURN ($1.65) 4:heart: T:spade: 2:club: K:heart:

      BB checks, Hero bets $0.80, BB raises to $2, Hero calls $1.20

      RIVER ($5.65) 4:heart: T:spade: 2:club: K:heart: 8:club:

      BB bets $2.50, Hero folds

      BB wins $5.37
    • MatejM47
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      In general you won make any big mistakes folding everytime your facing a turn C/R with any 1 pair hand. Players playing limits under NL200 just dont raise TPTK type hands for value on the turn nor do they play draws agressive. They are just so imballanced torward value hands that your TPTK is almost never good.

      So unless you have a very strong read on a player that his a total agro monkey your defoult play should be to bet/fold those hands. You will be facing a turn c/r about 5% of the time so just bet/fold your value hands.

      And like that AA hand he posted thats pretty much the worst play possible. If you call the turn c/r you HAVE to call the river bet. If you don't then you just throw away 12bb's every time since once they c/r the turn you'll be facing the river bet 95% of the time.
    • gadget51
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      Quite so and well explained. :f_cry:
    • DrDunne
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,378
      some good advice MatejM47 :)

      what about facing a raise on the flop when OOP? is it too weak to play b/f with TPTK? if IP i guess we could raise/fold... but then if we get called we are slightly stuck on the turn if we don't improve... which probably won't happen 90% of the time.