Folding.. Ace-King

    • philiveyfan
      philiveyfan
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2009 Posts: 304
      Alright I see players fold Ak in tournaments because it means so much.. I mean when there is 3 bets and 4 bets. I'm more of a cash game player. I want to ask you guys something would you fold ace king to a 3 bet or 4 bet in a cash game??

      I seem not be able to fold big hands to 3 or 4 bets any tips lol
  • 4 replies
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Silver
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,978
      Hey PIF,

      Just moved your post to MTT Discussion section.

      Have a nice day,


      Gary
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      I'm still not sure this is in the right place.

      AKo is a very strong hand. It is a premium hand, and in many contexts it is at about the 97th percentile, at the bottom of a top 3% range. You are almost always happy to be dealt AKo and you will make a lot of money with AKo. You need a reason to fold a hand this good. There are a few reasons to fold AKo preflop in a tournament. The most common are the following:

      -- Your opponents have shown too much strength.

      -- You are too risk-averse due to the prize structure.

      When the stacks are shallow, it is hard for your opponents to show much strength. However, when the stacks are deeper, and when someone raises in front of many players, raises can represent more strength, and you might find that AKo is behind. For example, a cold 4-bet over substantial raises where the first raise is in early position usually represents a very strong hand, something like QQ+ or KK+, and AKo is far behind those ranges.

      Near the bubble, particularly when you have the second stack against the chip leader, there are many times when you can't correctly call all-in with AK even if you put the pusher on a random hand and there is some dead money. Sometimes you might need 70% or more equity to call, and AKo only has 65% equity against a random hand.

      Of course, combinations are possible. You might need only 55% equity to call all-in, but you might not have that against a tighter range.

      There are other reasons to fold AKo. For example, you generally do not want to overcall with AKo with the short stack on the bubble of a STT. This would force you to win a 3-way pot to avoid bubbling out, and that sacrifices much of your expected shares of the second and third prizes.

      Even if it is clearly correct to fold AKo, you generally shouldn't count on your opponents being good enough to fold AKo.
    • philiveyfan
      philiveyfan
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2009 Posts: 304
      Originally posted by pzhon
      I'm still not sure this is in the right place.

      AKo is a very strong hand. It is a premium hand, and in many contexts it is at about the 97th percentile, at the bottom of a top 3% range. You are almost always happy to be dealt AKo and you will make a lot of money with AKo. You need a reason to fold a hand this good. There are a few reasons to fold AKo preflop in a tournament. The most common are the following:

      -- Your opponents have shown too much strength.

      -- You are too risk-averse due to the prize structure.

      When the stacks are shallow, it is hard for your opponents to show much strength. However, when the stacks are deeper, and when someone raises in front of many players, raises can represent more strength, and you might find that AKo is behind. For example, a cold 4-bet over substantial raises where the first raise is in early position usually represents a very strong hand, something like QQ+ or KK+, and AKo is far behind those ranges.

      Near the bubble, particularly when you have the second stack against the chip leader, there are many times when you can't correctly call all-in with AK even if you put the pusher on a random hand and there is some dead money. Sometimes you might need 70% or more equity to call, and AKo only has 65% equity against a random hand.

      Of course, combinations are possible. You might need only 55% equity to call all-in, but you might not have that against a tighter range.

      There are other reasons to fold AKo. For example, you generally do not want to overcall with AKo with the short stack on the bubble of a STT. This would force you to win a 3-way pot to avoid bubbling out, and that sacrifices much of your expected shares of the second and third prizes.

      Even if it is clearly correct to fold AKo, you generally shouldn't count on your opponents being good enough to fold AKo.

      thanks for your time writing this :p
    • expertnabbo
      expertnabbo
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2010 Posts: 334
      AK in a sit n go should be played for steal the blinds of who have already raised alot first from you.
      is often a coin flip ;)
      play it often if you are in a sit turbo. or blinds will eat you
      fold it if you are in a regular time speed sit&go at beginning. this a good choice ;)