[NL2-NL10] The old is it a bluff/isn't it Question!

    • Scooney
      Scooney
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.08.2011 Posts: 104
      Regarde:

      0.01/0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy.com Elephant 0.105 by http://www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A :diamond: , K :heart: (Comment)
      UTG2 folds, Hero raises to $0.08, 2 folds, CO calls $0.08, 2 folds, BB calls $0.06.

      Flop: ($0.25) K :diamond: , 6 :club: , 3 :heart: (3 players) (Comment)
      BB checks, Hero bets $0.16, CO folds, BB raises to $0.48, Hero calls $0.32.

      Turn: ($1.21) 8 :diamond: (2 players) (Comment)
      BB checks, Hero checks.

      River: ($1.21) 9 :club: (2 players) (Comment)
      BB bets $1, Hero....

      Info on villain: 32/9/3/100/14/22 (VPIP/PFR/AF/W$SD/WTS/Hands)

      Also, villain let the time bank tick down to almost 0 before betting if you think you can garner a read from that.

      Get speculating :D
  • 10 replies
    • yeahyoung0312
      yeahyoung0312
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.12.2009 Posts: 340
      Looks like a value bet to me. Only if you saw him playing QK/KJ that way can you call that. Otherwise his check-raise range on that flop was way ahead of your TPTK.
    • wasy8
      wasy8
      Black
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      his line is pretty nonsensical. there are only two combos of sets in his range on the flop and your hand strength is somewhat disguised with your turn check.

      if you have reads on how he plays his top pair type hands on the flop - ie KQ/KJ it helps. regardless i dont think i ever fold in this spot vs this particular line....i'd need really, really strong reads to fold and it appears you dont have those reads.
    • yeahyoung0312
      yeahyoung0312
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.12.2009 Posts: 340
      Originally posted by wasy8
      his line is pretty nonsensical. there are only two combos of sets in his range on the flop and your hand strength is somewhat disguised with your turn check.

      if you have reads on how he plays his top pair type hands on the flop - ie KQ/KJ it helps. regardless i dont think i ever fold in this spot vs this particular line....i'd need really, really strong reads to fold and it appears you dont have those reads.
      I agree with you that the combinatics suggets a call on the river.

      However the villain check-raised on a 3-way pot, which means that when he checked he was hoping someone after him would raise him. And I really don't think many plrs play QK/KJ that way. On the turn it looks like he was trapping again and on the river he potted. I don't know. It's one of those 50/50 read-dependent spots for me.
    • wasy8
      wasy8
      Black
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      since we dont know much about this player outside of his preflop stats (although we MAYBE can deduce general passivity from 32/9) we have no idea wrt his bluffing tendencies. its really hard to have anything on the flop and since he is last to act in a three way pot a lot of people take that spot to ch/r bluff.

      the price we are getting combined with a very low number of value combos for opponent should make it a really clear call.

      i'm really not looking for an excuse to fold here considering everything stated above as well as the fact that we get to take a note on a really weird/nonstandard line vs this opponent.

      if we are folding at any point in the hand it should be on the flop. but again, i'd need the read that villain is super nitty postflop and has no bluffing range in this spot.
    • wasy8
      wasy8
      Black
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      i should also add that i think in this particular hand you were probably beat on the river. (or you made a weird river fold).

      but that read is solely based on the fact that you're posting the hand in the forums, since i think its much less likely that you wouldve posted the hand had you called and won.

      as a standard against someone with little postflop reads, i think the line you took (assuming you called river) will be the most profitable line. NH WP.
    • thazar
      thazar
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.09.2009 Posts: 6,560
      Hi

      I moved the hand the the hand evaluation boards.

      As Wasy8 pointed it is an easy call on the river without read. It's NL2 so I'd evne go as far as raising the river. (ie why call if we are ahead that often)
    • Scooney
      Scooney
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.08.2011 Posts: 104
      Ah ok never spotted this forum before - thanks.

      I actually folded, and I was thinking about this hand more and I actually agree I should've called. Its only the case Kings, 66 and 33 that I lose to - though I think 88/99 could've played it the same way - and I really should've called. Most of the time I would do, but I had had my fingers burnt a couple of times that day against large bets and just didn't want to pay off again :/
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Scooney,

      Welcome to the NL Hand Evaluation Forum! Hopefully we will see more hands from you in the future. I hope that with our help you can improve your play and as well move up the limits. We will be waiting for the next hands and till that good luck on tables!

      Flop: Well, as you see you guys are in multiway pot. Also the opponents raise ain't that smallish. Without any reason to think that he is overplaying his TP type of hand like this I don't like to continue here at all. Rather Bet/Fold it. There ain't even any draws which he could play this way.

      As played
      River: Well if you Called the flop then it didn't change much on river. :D If you called the flop then it practically means you did it for value. Which means you should bet the turn or either way even if you Check the turn then Call the river. Doesn't make sense to Bet/Call the flop and then give up on pretty much blank card.

      Best regards.
    • Scooney
      Scooney
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.08.2011 Posts: 104
      Isn't it quite possible that my cbet just looks like a standard bet on a dry board, and he's looking to bluff here? But yeah if I'm calling flop I have to call the river :( fail.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Scooney
      Isn't it quite possible that my cbet just looks like a standard bet on a dry board, and he's looking to bluff here? But yeah if I'm calling flop I have to call the river :( fail.
      Well, doubt that he is bluffing that often in this kind of spot while you even don't know the opponent. It also hardly hits PPs here which they would play the same way.