[NL2-NL10] NL10, J10, freeplay

    • burek2000
      burek2000
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      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

      SB ($19.15)
      BB ($4.95)
      UTG ($10.60)
      UTG+1 ($10.95)
      MP1 ($12.75)
      MP2 ($6.35)
      MP3 ($3.90)
      Hero ($2)
      Button ($2.70)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with J:diamond: , T:spade: .
      3 folds, MP2 calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero checks, Button calls $0.10, 1 fold, BB checks.

      Flop: ($0.45) 2:diamond: , 3:diamond: , T:diamond: (4 players)
      BB bets $0.45, MP2 folds, Hero folds, Button folds.

      Final Pot: $0.45

      Would be this hand playable by any chance? ...I found myself too weak here, but would appreciate other opinions.
  • 12 replies
    • NamePlus
      NamePlus
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      Joined: 11.02.2008 Posts: 9
      3 Opponoents, noone raised preflop, you got top pair medium kicker and a flushdraw.
      I would do it.
    • Gremlin68
      Gremlin68
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      Joined: 18.08.2006 Posts: 345
      I like yr laydown here without reads, being in a very difficult situation.

      My flushdraw is not too strong as in a onecard flush Q,K,A of diamonds that could definitely be at one of my opponents will beat us.

      BB donks potsize in three opponents which shows strength, possible flush or flushdraw with the a.m. risks for me.

      At this spot I would avoid any trouble against three opponents.

      If I was first to play I would play this hand aggressively but not being confronted with this bet.

      But that's just how I would have played this. :)
    • burek2000
      burek2000
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      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      If I was first to play I would play this hand aggressively but not being confronted with this bet.


      I absolutely agree, I would play this hand too if there was no raiser before me. Specially if I was last to act in a betting round. But against a raise into three opponents I decided that laydown is a better option here, but if I had a top kicker I think I would go broke despite the bet...

      Thanks for the posts!
    • xylere
      xylere
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      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      hehe) push, of course) The guy is not betting his made flush, unless he is an idiot) and you have around 50% equity against both A high FD and top pair higher kicker.
    • Berliner1982
      Berliner1982
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      Joined: 12.07.2006 Posts: 5,644
      I agree with xylere here.
    • nttflox
      nttflox
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      Joined: 25.10.2007 Posts: 673
      Originally posted by xylere
      The guy is not betting his made flush, unless he is an idiot
      I don't get this. You're saying if you have 59 diamonds in the BB you would check it? I mean I would defintely bet it big just like BB did.
    • NamePlus
      NamePlus
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      Joined: 11.02.2008 Posts: 9
      Originally posted by nttflox
      Originally posted by xylere
      The guy is not betting his made flush, unless he is an idiot
      I don't get this. You're saying if you have 59 diamonds in the BB you would check it? I mean I would defintely bet it big just like BB did.
      My oppinion on that (attention, im a newbie so its just an oppinion!):
      If you get a flush on flop and bet big everyone would assume you got that flush so they will fold and not give you their money.
      If you check you would say "i dont got that flush so you can win against me".
      That would be a normal way to play it, BUT:
      Since everyone knows that style it is played in the opposit direction!
      Someone you did not hit that flush will big bet as early, which results in "not betting an a flush". Someone who hit that flush will check on early to let the opponents put money in the pot and then raise. Or raise in the next round.
    • burek2000
      burek2000
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      Joined: 16.11.2007 Posts: 3,105
      I'm really happy to have made this post, because I was very sure after analyzing my hand that I was too weak and beaten here, but here comes in handy when experienced players give you an evaluation...

      ...now I'm starting to understand where I missed the profit in this hand. :P

      I simply thought that after such a raise into 3 opponents BB would call my all-in for sure and that I would be behind on such a dangerous board. But now I see it doesn't only take brains to win pots, but sometimes also balls to not give up too fast when you hit the board. :tongue:

      Originally posted by xylere
      The guy is not betting his made flush, unless he is an idiot)
      ...just wanted to say that it's not so hard to find one at NL10, so it's not so easy to presume he's not one. :D
    • xylere
      xylere
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      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      Ok, I should admit, that referring to him as an idiot was a bit too much :) Of course, betting with 59d is somewhat standard value poker. Just from EV perspective, it is not an optimal play oop, in unraised pot, with a 40BB stack.

      He can protect tons of other hand this way. What I wanted to say, is that on average, we will have an equity advantage and with a shortstack we have to go broke with such a hand.
    • nttflox
      nttflox
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      Joined: 25.10.2007 Posts: 673
      Originally posted by xylere
      Just from EV perspective, it is not an optimal play oop, in unraised pot, with a 40BB stack.
      Can you please elaborate on this? I'm quite often confronted with this kind of situations, floping a small made flush, and I always bet the flop. Maybe I just found a leak in my game here.
      What line do you see as the best?
    • xylere
      xylere
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      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      well, I don`t think its a leak, it might be just not an optimal play)

      First, lets think of a type of hands we are playing oop in unraised pot. These will be pocket pairs, suited connectors, Ax suited and any trash from BB. With such a range, our playbale hands on the flop are devided into 2 categories:
      - draws
      - made hands (2 pair+)

      while you don`t need to be a poker expert to extract value from the second category, you need some thinking to do it with the first one. Hopefully, there is a great post made by xarry2 on how to handle draws oop.
      Interesting hands and questions from 01/30 SSS Adv. Coaching

      So I simply play check/push with made hands (unless I need to protect them badly), to balance the line with my draws.

      Its hard to make up a certain EV equation for a 4way flop, you need to make a lot of assumptions. On this kind of flop you don`t have any fold equity against A-Qd X hands, on top of that, A-Qd type of hands would likely bet themselves. Although, your hand requires protection, I still think c/r would be more profitable in this spot (simply because you are not able to protect your hand against draw, unless you go directly all-in).
      With 40BB its getting a bit more complicated, since you will have hard decision on turn, if another d comes, but still c/r is the choice, imo.
    • xylere
      xylere
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      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      or the other option, if you don`t want to risk for extra value, is to bet big. probably over betting the pot