[NL2-NL10] NL10 AJ vs cold-called 3-bet

    • Meemawuk
      Meemawuk
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2009 Posts: 758
      My thoughts during the hand were that he has coldcalled a 3-bet so I put him on a medium strength hand/PP from 88-QQ. Though he seems to be much looser (40%vpip) than that. He had just sat down so stats werent relevant. When he raises flop it doesnt seem to make sense to me. I have 3-bet pre andhe has cold called. I don't believe he does this on the dry board with JJ/88, and I dont believe he does it with QQ either. I think he would just flat call with QQ.

      Turn, I decide to appear to give up to allow him to protect bet his 99/TT hands and get it in.

      Upon reviwing this, Should I be taking his flop check raise to be more polarised. Should I just fold?

      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      Hero:
      $10.44
      BB:
      $34.85
      CO:
      $13.62

      0.05/0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy.com Elephant 0.102 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with A:heart: , J:club:
      MP3 folds, CO raises to $0.30, BU folds, Hero raises to $1.00, BB calls $0.90, CO folds.

      Flop: ($2.30) J:heart: , 8:diamond: , 6:club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.64, BB raises to $3.28, Hero calls $1.64.

      Turn: ($8.86) 3:club: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $4.3, Hero raises to $6.16 (All-In), BB calls $1.86.

      River: ($21.18) 3:heart: (2 players)


      Final Pot: $21.18

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows two-pair, jacks and threes (Ah Jc)
      BB shows (Th Ts)

      Hero wins with two-pair, jacks and threes (Ah Jc)
  • 16 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Meemawuk,

      Well, against that kind of loose player I doubt that we can so easily fold our TPTK while he could be Calling with a lot worse Jx hands which could be playing the same way.

      Also if he really had set would he ever raise the flop even? :> Most likely he would trap you. So I doubt your play is off here as you went for 3bet-value in this spot. So it's only towards some QQ+ type of hands which could be playing this way.

      Board: J:heart: 8:diamond: 6:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      UTG    48.42%  48.09%   0.32% { QQ+, 88, 66, KJs, QJs, JTs, KJo, QJo, JTo }
      UTG+1  51.58%  51.26%   0.32% { AhJc }

      So I don't even mind. If you called the flop then there is no other way to play the hand.

      Best Regards.
    • Meemawuk
      Meemawuk
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2009 Posts: 758
      You don't seem to have included 99-JJ in his range either? Is there a particular reason for this? You also give him KJo but not AJ?

      Is it not more like:


      Board: J:heart: 8:diamond: 6:club:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      UTG    57.27%  52.39%   4.88% { AhJc }
      UTG+1  42.73%  37.85%   4.88% { 88+, 66, AJs, KJs, QJs, JTs, AJo, KJo, QJo, JTo }


      I suppose once we calculate we are beating more than 50% of his range the rest is irrelevant?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      You don't seem to have included 99-JJ in his range either? Is there a particular reason for this? You also give him KJo but not AJ?

      Well, yeah, AJ of course as well. Although that wouldn't change much of the equity. Although why I didn't add 99-JJ is that we don't have that information that he plays underpairs aggressively. Those loose-passive guys usually don't do that. I wouldn't be result oriented.
    • sausage646
      sausage646
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2010 Posts: 567
      0.8 af and raising flop bet - shouldn't his range be more tighter?
      Because in my opinion he probably would just call on flop whit JT and JQ.

      QQ+,88,66,AJs,KJs,AJo,KJo - 63.71% + we can easy add J8s or 68s
      AA - 36.29 %

      I would fold since only hand we beat is KJ and against his other holdings we don't have odds to draw out...
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by sausage646
      0.8 af and raising flop bet - shouldn't his range be more tighter?
      Because in my opinion he probably would just call on flop whit JT and JQ.

      QQ+,88,66,AJs,KJs,AJo,KJo - 63.71% + we can easy add J8s or 68s
      AA - 36.29 %

      I would fold since only hand we beat is KJ and against his other holdings we don't have odds to draw out...
      Not really, we have only 30 hands on him. How can you base on AF?
    • sausage646
      sausage646
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2010 Posts: 567
      I know simple is small but he still is 40/10 - lose passive fish, and usually they take passive lines so I wouldn't count in JT and JQ ...
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by sausage646
      I know simple is small but he still is 40/10 - lose passive fish, and usually they take passive lines so I wouldn't count in JT and JQ ...
      Well, then we shouldn't 3bet in 1st place for value there with our hand but rather just Call and play postflop. ;)
    • sausage646
      sausage646
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2010 Posts: 567
      pay attention :rolleyes:
      we did 3bet 25/22 CU and not 40/10 BB fish - he cold called.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by sausage646
      pay attention :rolleyes:
      we did 3bet 25/22 CU and not 40/10 BB fish - he cold called.
      Well, that doesn't make him Call you only with pure nuts, does it? You really want to say that he will never have JT/QJ/KJ there or even worse? That kind of player, I expect him to have. So I am still 3betting it for value, even against BB.
    • sausage646
      sausage646
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2010 Posts: 567
      I am speaking about flop - he wouldn't raise JT JQ since he is lose passive - do you agree? His range consist of JT,JQ,JK,JA but he would probably just call JT,JQ and maybe raise JK,JA.

      3 betting CU for value is ok - do you agree ?

      I am not saying his range consist only of nutz I am saying he is raising only really strong hands on flop..
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      I am speaking about flop - he wouldn't raise JT JQ since he is lose passive - do you agree?

      Why shouldn't he? At the same time why should he raise with sets? This board is super-dry. He would rather trap with it.

      3 betting CU for value is ok - do you agree ?

      Well, that means that you also are planning to go broke against him? Nope, I wouldn't go for 3bet/Broke, but rather 3bet/Fold vs CU. I was talking about BB range, which is for value.

      when bb cold calls I don't say his range is only nutz - his range is all type of suited junk, Broadways and so on - but the flop action already shows that he have strong hand.

      Well, as I described myself already in early situation. If he really had the set, would he ever raise them? Why not just trap, he would scare away a lot of hands. It's still a 3bet pot not just standard raise pot where most likely I would consider Bet/Fold.
    • sausage646
      sausage646
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2010 Posts: 567
      Originally posted by veriz
      I am speaking about flop - he wouldn't raise JT JQ since he is lose passive - do you agree?

      Why shouldn't he?
      And why should he :D ? you already said its dry board whit no draws :f_eek:
    • sausage646
      sausage646
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2010 Posts: 567
      about CU yes I agree I am not going broke I am bet folding - If I 3bet anyone I strongly depend on fold/call to 3bet stats, I would 3bet if he have high call to 3bet or just call his raise if he have high fold to 3bet... ( I hope hero did based his action on call/fold to 3b stats )

      yes I agree that our range is stronger than BB range but I don't think that he will ever raise his marginal holdings on flop.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by sausage646
      Originally posted by veriz
      I am speaking about flop - he wouldn't raise JT JQ since he is lose passive - do you agree?

      Why shouldn't he?
      And why should he :D ? you already said its dry board whit no draws :f_eek:
      To protect from overcards? That's easy an simple fishy thinking.
    • sausage646
      sausage646
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.03.2010 Posts: 567
      and also min raising whit nutz : "now I will put this min raise he won't even notice it, it is so little, he have to call !"

      ok, I guess this will start going in circles... let's finish it here...
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by sausage646
      and also min raising whit nutz : "now I will put this min raise he won't even notice it, it is so little, he have to call !"

      ok, I guess this will start going in circles... let's finish it here...
      We could argue this till end, if you want to fold then nobody says it's wrong. But I am never-ever folding vs such a loose guy who could easily even have Jx there which he plays this way. We can't exclude them from his range.