[NL2-NL10] NL4 SH Preflop A8s

    • yinyun
      yinyun
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.06.2010 Posts: 72
      Party Poker $4.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BTN: $4.44 - VPIP: 11, PFR: 11, 3B: 0, AF: NaN, Hands: 9
      SB: $4.72 - VPIP: 19, PFR: 6, 3B: 11, AF: 8.0, Hands: 47
      BB: $4.00 - VPIP: 0, PFR: 0, 3B: NaN, AF: NaN, Hands: 1
      Hero (UTG): $5.40 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 15, 3B: 6, AF: 3.1, Hands: 17463
      CO: $4.22 - VPIP: 15, PFR: 13, 3B: 4, AF: 1.6, Hands: 257

      Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero is UTG with 8 :diamond: A :diamond:
      Hero raises to $0.12, 2 folds, SB raises to $0.20, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.08
      EQ against Tag range (15%) 45%
      Pot odds = EQ(EV=0) = 8/44=18%

      Flop: ($0.44) 3 :club: T :spade: K :heart: (2 players)
      SB bets $0.21, Hero folds

      Final Pot: $0.44
      SB wins $0.42
      (Rake: $0.02)
  • 7 replies
    • Meemawuk
      Meemawuk
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2009 Posts: 758
      I think its fine to call vs the minraise, as long as you dont overvalue your hand on A hi boards.
    • Firefly52
      Firefly52
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.01.2011 Posts: 147
      You simply cant raise A8s while UTG. The range I use is ATs, AJ+, KQ, KJs, 22+

      You also can't call a 3bet easily with A8. Even though you are IP and it is a min3bet he is likely to have TT+ / AQ+, so unless you hit the very obvious nutflush you will never know where you are (except A8x flop, but kind of unlikely).
    • Meemawuk
      Meemawuk
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2009 Posts: 758
      Originally posted by Firefly52
      You simply cant raise A8s while UTG. The range I use is ATs, AJ+, KQ, KJs, 22+
      I don't agree. As long as you dont overvalue your hand it should be fine. I'm raising most suited aces from any position at such a tight table. AND its 5-handed.


      Board:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      UTG    29.98%  28.68%   1.30% { Ad8d }
      UTG+1  70.02%  68.72%   1.30% { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }


      You have the correct equity to call vs the range you assign him. You just have to be careful to not overplay your hand. Additionally you have position vs the 3better so it is easy to take a pot-control line postflop, and give up on any textures that arent helpful.
    • Firefly52
      Firefly52
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.01.2011 Posts: 147
      Board is tight over a really small sample, I really wouldn't raise A8s here from UTG. just wait till CO with stuff like that.

      Originally posted by Meemawuk
      You have the correct equity to call vs the range you assign him.
      I don't think it is that simple, because you simply will never know where you stand with such a hand, forcing you to fold to any cbet. Compare it to playing lower pocket pairs, if you don't hit your set, you will have fold your hand, even though you are having about 50% equity against any non-pp hand. You can't call 3bets with them either with correct equity, you have to stick to the call20 rule with them because you simply don't know where you are when you miss the flop.

      A8s has pretty bad reverse implieds as well. Just fold.
    • Meemawuk
      Meemawuk
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2009 Posts: 758
      Originally posted by Firefly52
      Board is tight over a really small sample, I really wouldn't raise A8s here from UTG. just wait till CO with stuff like that.

      Originally posted by Meemawuk
      You have the correct equity to call vs the range you assign him.
      I don't think it is that simple, because you simply will never know where you stand with such a hand, forcing you to fold to any cbet. Compare it to playing lower pocket pairs, if you don't hit your set, you will have fold your hand, even though you are having about 50% equity against any non-pp hand. You can't call 3bets with them either with correct equity, you have to stick to the call20 rule with them because you simply don't know where you are when you miss the flop.

      A8s has pretty bad reverse implieds as well. Just fold.
      Pocket pairs are a different assessment antirely though. You are calling very often with the incorrect equity but consider implied odds in your calculation. In this situation I'm suggesting you are calling with the correct equity so you are actually giving up EV by folding.

      Very often you can take a passive line on an A high board and you will get 1 more bet from pocket pairs. You can also make him fold with position on boards that connect with your hand in other ways for instance flush draw. Plus in situations when you flop a big hand, you will often win a big pot because he is repping a relatively strong range (eg A8x board). I suppose we just differ in our opinions. I dont think it is a mistake to call anyway. The problem is that beginners often make mistakes postflop that make it more costly.
    • yinyun
      yinyun
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.06.2010 Posts: 72
      Thanks for your thoughts!

      Yes, that fife-handed and thous is my position MP and SH ORC allows A9+ for maximal and AT+ for standard, so its close, but I agree, that folding would not be a mistake either.

      y
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello yinyun,

      It's not the question about equity here. Are you going all-in or what? No. So therefore we can't do much with the equity but rather is the question of implied odds. With A8s you can't really just anything except a FD which you are hoping to hit. Although even that you wont hit often enough and more often you will just pay too much with your Ace and might even make cruel mistakes. To avoid that I would just recommend folding it preflop, of course it's not wrong to Call if you feel secure postflop but with basic skills I wouldn't advice. Any hands what ain't dominated like small SCs/PPs or whatsoever, they have a lot better implied odds against any kind of hands since they ain't dominated.

      Best Regards.