[NL2-NL10] NL25 - slowplay KK pre?

    • random3
      random3
      Silver
      Joined: 21.02.2007 Posts: 119
      Villain is a mss player, 12/9 after 30 hands.
      CO is fishy 31/6 after 30
      SN is nitty 8/7 over 61 hands

      Preflop I called because he is folding alot to 3bet here and our 3bet range here is super strong. I wanted to keep the fishy guy in pot.

      Flop:
      great flop, I plan to call him down unless an A comes. If any of other players raise on flop, im shipping it.

      Turn:
      great card for us, but a bit of an action killer. Does he ever check AA here planning to fold? That is really the only hand I am "afraid" of here since he can suck out on river if i check here

      River:
      river is a blank and he bets half.. not much thinking to do here, SHIP IT!
      How much do we bet on river if he checks to us, 1/2 1/3 ?

      Comments on all streets appreciated.

      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.25(BB) Poker Stars
      SB ($25)
      BB ($27.50)
      UTG ($14.40)
      UTG+1 ($14.45)
      Hero ($10)
      CO ($11.10)
      BTN ($25)

      Dealt to Hero K:spade: K:diamond:

      UTG raises to $0.75, fold, Hero calls $0.75, CO calls $0.75, fold, SB calls $0.65, fold

      FLOP ($3.25) 6:spade: 7:club: 6:diamond:

      SB checks, UTG bets $2.31, Hero calls $2.31, CO folds, SB folds

      TURN ($7.87) 6:spade: 7:club: 6:diamond: K:heart:

      UTG checks, Hero checks

      RIVER ($7.87) 6:spade: 7:club: 6:diamond: K:heart: 4:heart:

      UTG bets $3, Hero raises to $6.94 (AI), UTG calls $3.94
  • 5 replies
    • VipKen
      VipKen
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2009 Posts: 280
      Preflop:

      As villain is raising from UTG, I don't think he will do this with a wide range. I think he will call/4bet more often from UTG than from late position. So here I would 3-bet him, to try to isolate him. By calling you're giving good odds to the players behind you. In multiway pots the risk of getting a bad beat/suckout is much higher than when you're playing heads up.

      Flop

      Because you gave away good odds to CO and SB to call, and you also kept UTG in the pot with his whole range, you really can't say this is a great flop. CO and SB got good odds to call with small and middle pocket pairs. And those pairs might have hit this flop. So calling here a 2/3 pot bet is really on the edge, but it might be a standard cbet by UTG. So you need to see his action on the turn to know where you are. If CO or SB call, I would be very carefull. If they raise the cbet, you can be almost sure to be beat. In fact CO and SB again get quite good odds to call, because of your call. Luckily there is no flush draw available.

      Turn

      CO and SB folded to the cbet, which puts you heads up to UTG. He checks the turn towards you, meaning the K scares him. So he might be playing something like TT, JJ, QQ, AQ, AJ. With AA he would second barrel here. I would rather bet here something around 1/2 pot than checking behind. If he calls you can easily shove the river. If he puts you all in would even be better.

      River

      the only hand beating you here is 66, so yeah ship it. I don't expect UTG to raise 66 from that position. Like I already said at the turn, I would bet max 1/2 pot. But if he only calls here we miss some value from our hand. That's why checking behind the turn is not a good play, I think.

      Conclusion

      Don't call preflop because you give good odds to others to call with hands that can beat you on a good flop + you really can't put them clearly on a range, which will make it difficult playing your hand in further streets. It's better to try to isolate villain with a 3-bet.
      Checking behind the turn is also tricky, as you might miss some value from your hand.

      I understand your reasoning here, but I don't like slowplaying my premiums. I'd rather pick up a small pot than get sucked out on a big pot.

      Finally your stats doesn't say anything yet, because your samples are way too small. They might indicate how one might be playing, but still not to be used to base your decisions on.
    • random3
      random3
      Silver
      Joined: 21.02.2007 Posts: 119
      Thanks for the input, heres some thoughts:

      Preflop:
      if he shoves over my 3bet its QQ+ probably, and vs that we are flipping, I dont think he calls 3bets much.I guess we have to hope he shoves AK too. Am I wrong here vs a nittier player?

      Flop:
      SPR ratio is only 3:1 which I thought was good for such an overpair. We are ahead of alot of smaller pp and there is no flushdraw. If there was possible fd out I would just raise on the flop.

      Turn:
      You said you put him on hands like TT, JJ, QQ, AQ, AJ. Would a bet here achieve anything vs those hands? all of these hands are already drawing dead and we dont have to protect against, just have to get as much value as possible.
    • VipKen
      VipKen
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2009 Posts: 280
      Preflop:
      if he shoves over my 3bet its QQ+ probably, and vs that we are flipping, I dont think he calls 3bets much.I guess we have to hope he shoves AK too. Am I wrong here vs a nittier player?
      It's better to 3bet here, to get more info about his range. If he shoves, I would certainly call with KK. I just like to get it all in as fast as possible with my premiums. And again, by only calling you give good odds to those behind to call too.

      Flop:
      SPR ratio is only 3:1 which I thought was good for such an overpair. We are ahead of alot of smaller pp and there is no flushdraw. If there was possible fd out I would just raise on the flop.
      Calling villains bet on the flop fits in the line you're playing by calling his raise preflop. But what would you do when there is a flusdraw and you get reraised?

      Turn:
      You said you put him on hands like TT, JJ, QQ, AQ, AJ. Would a bet here achieve anything vs those hands? all of these hands are already drawing dead and we dont have to protect against, just have to get as much value as possible.
      To get as much value as possible, you should bet the turn, so you can shove easily on the river. So what I say, is you make a value bet here of 1/2-1/3 pot.

      You're lucky that villain bets the river, so you can shove over it. But what would you do when he checks towards you? I don't think he would call if you shoved the river here. Maybe he would call, when you make a valuebet of 1/2-1/3 pot. But I don't expect him to raise a bet here. So in that case you would miss value.
    • random3
      random3
      Silver
      Joined: 21.02.2007 Posts: 119
      Originally posted by VipKen
      Calling villains bet on the flop fits in the line you're playing by calling his raise preflop. But what would you do when there is a flusdraw and you get reraised?


      To get as much value as possible, you should bet the turn, so you can shove easily on the river. So what I say, is you make a value bet here of 1/2-1/3 pot.

      You're lucky that villain bets the river, so you can shove over it. But what would you do when he checks towards you? I don't think he would call if you shoved the river here. Maybe he would call, when you make a valuebet of 1/2-1/3 pot. But I don't expect him to raise a bet here. So in that case you would miss value.
      flop:
      im getting it in on the flop if he bet/3bet.. if he cbets potsized i can usually just shove directly

      turn:
      I think if he has hands that we can value bet, like AA or AK he will bet himself already and if he checks we cant really value bet because he doesnt have these hands. If I am a PFR and he is calling me down, then I am valuebetting here vs those hands, but this is other way around.

      river:
      i probably bet 1/2 if he checks to me, I dont think he will call bigger bets.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Hi,

      If this guy is a MSS player and following the charts, you have to raise here then since he ships TT+ and you are ahead of 3 out of 4 pps (excl. KK)

      If you don't choose to raise the Flop, the K card is a card where he will c/f a lot so I do not think the Turn is the best way to extract value. You want him to hit something too

      So as played obvious we ship the River :)

      Best regards,
      Gerv